21 December 2012

[Zinnia-Hen]

Can we see our own demise?

x2. I don't see how anyone can.

 

[thaiturkey]

We shouldn't decry the knowledge and achievements of the ancients. They gave us the alphabet, number system and calendar, crossed oceans to discover the New World long before Columbus set sail, knew astronomy and shifted and dressed huge rocks to create seam-perfect structures. Some of them wrote books by which millions order their lives today.

Sometimes, modern man doesn't seem to be as smart as he thinks he is.

 

[Zinnia-Hen]

We shouldn't decry the knowledge and achievements of the ancients. They gave us the alphabet, number system and calendar, crossed oceans to discover the New World long before Columbus set sail, knew astronomy and shifted and dressed huge rocks to create seam-perfect structures. Some of them wrote books by which millions order their lives today. Sometimes, modern man doesn't seem to be as smart as he thinks he is.

Exactly what I was thinking. The Mayans were brilliant people, and I'm sure there's a logical explanation other than the end of the world as to why they stopped graphing their calendar. Not to mention, the Gregorian system we use is very different than theirs, therefore the world was supposed to 'end' about ten to fourteen months ago.

 

[thaiturkey]

I could willingly accept, also, that the world is ready for some radical changes.

 

[KristyHall]

On the powwow trail I had met a few people descended from Mayans, from small offshoot tribes that was believed to have formed after the Mayan civilization collapsed and the resulting refugees were absorbed into their neighboring tribes. Many speak off shoots of the old Mayan languages, and know their ancestral heritage pretty well.

As it was explained to me, the original Mayans who made the calender believed the number 13 was sacred, and the ending calender (supposedly 2012, though as it was pointed out before, their concept of marking years was different from ours and thus the dates do not line up) ended on the 13th calender cycle. The purpose is to start over the calender cycle with a large celebration Some debate that there is a belief that their main god (If they were polytheistic, like many things, many of their presumed beliefs are largely speculative from an archaeological point of view) is to descend from the heavens and bring about change

One of the men I spoke with (who is a rather educated man as well) laughed at people's panic over the 2012 thing and never understood certain cultures obsessions with the old calenders and the end of the world. He pointed out the same cultures that obsess over it are the same ones who obsess over many "exotic" and poorly understood cultural beliefs from other parts of the world because little is known (by the obsessies) and there for it must be mystical and possess some sort of magical knowledge forgotten by "modern" society.

He also scoffed at people who assumed because a certain city or civilization is no longer around it must have mysteriously vanished and the complex languages, religious beliefs, and customs must have completely disintegrated into thin air. This led to a long discussion about such things

When the Roman empire collapsed, did Rome fully fall? Did all the people mysteriously vanish? No, Rome reformed, and much of what was roman territory simply became their own countries, and the people who lived there either assimilated or migrated, or stayed in place and like all cultures over time, their customs and beliefs changed over time.

Of course these sort of things are hotly debated among people, particularly in the archaeological and anthropology fields, but I am quicker to listen to and believe the stories and oral histories from the Natives themselves than from the outside cultures that come in and try to interpret other's history through old artifacts that often takes them decades to even understand the uses of let alone cultural significance of to begin with.

 

[thaiturkey]

 

[KristyHall]

most of the problem is TV shows that used to have educational stuff on it with a lot of scientific fact checking has been replaced by TV shows that are scripted or endorse crack pot theories like the end of the world or ancient aliens because it gets them higher ratings. I'm looking at you history channel and national geographic.

I have heard rumors that Fox bought Nat Geo Channel which lead to the sudden decline in the truth and quality of their shows, though I haven't taken the time to look it up and see if it's true. It would explain a few things though. When shows like "Meet the Hutterites" and "American Gypsies" came on I stopped watching Nat Geo. I had expected far better from the National Geographic brand and I am especially horrified at the "American Gypsies" show.

 

[Zinnia-Hen]

On the powwow trail I had met a few people descended from Mayans, from small offshoot tribes that was believed to have formed after the Mayan civilization collapsed and the resulting refugees were absorbed into their neighboring tribes. Many speak off shoots of the old Mayan languages, and know their ancestral heritage pretty well.

As it was explained to me, the original Mayans who made the calender believed the number 13 was sacred, and the ending calender (supposedly 2012, though as it was pointed out before, their concept of marking years was different from ours and thus the dates do not line up) ended on the 13th calender cycle. The purpose is to start over the calender cycle with a large celebration Some debate that there is a belief that their main god (If they were polytheistic, like many things, many of their presumed beliefs are largely speculative from an archaeological point of view) is to descend from the heavens and bring about change

One of the men I spoke with (who is a rather educated man as well) laughed at people's panic over the 2012 thing and never understood certain cultures obsessions with the old calenders and the end of the world. He pointed out the same cultures that obsess over it are the same ones who obsess over many "exotic" and poorly understood cultural beliefs from other parts of the world because little is known (by the obsessies) and there for it must be mystical and possess some sort of magical knowledge forgotten by "modern" society.

He also scoffed at people who assumed because a certain city or civilization is no longer around it must have mysteriously vanished and the complex languages, religious beliefs, and customs must have completely disintegrated into thin air. This led to a long discussion about such things

When the Roman empire collapsed, did Rome fully fall? Did all the people mysteriously vanish? No, Rome reformed, and much of what was roman territory simply became their own countries, and the people who lived there either assimilated or migrated, or stayed in place and like all cultures over time, their customs and beliefs changed over time.

Of course these sort of things are hotly debated among people, particularly in the archaeological and anthropology fields, but I am quicker to listen to and believe the stories and oral histories from the Natives themselves than from the outside cultures that come in and try to interpret other's history through old artifacts that often takes them decades to even understand the uses of let alone cultural significance of to begin with.

I thought it would be something like that. Very interesting.

 

[KristyHall]

I thought it would be something like that. Very interesting.

It is amazing how many mundane and simple answers there are to so many seemingly great mysteries out there.

 

[galanie]

On the powwow trail I had met a few people descended from Mayans, from small offshoot tribes that was believed to have formed after the Mayan civilization collapsed and the resulting refugees were absorbed into their neighboring tribes. Many speak off shoots of the old Mayan languages, and know their ancestral heritage pretty well. 

As it  was explained to me, the original Mayans who made the calender believed the number 13 was sacred, and the ending calender (supposedly 2012, though as it was pointed out before, their concept of marking years was different from ours and thus the dates do not line up) ended on the 13th calender cycle. The purpose is to start over the  calender cycle with a large celebration Some debate that there is a belief that their main god (If they were polytheistic, like many things, many of their presumed beliefs are largely speculative from an archaeological point of view) is to descend from the heavens and bring about change

One of the men I spoke with (who is a rather educated man as well) laughed  at people's panic over the 2012 thing and never understood certain  cultures  obsessions with the old calenders and the end of the world. He pointed out the same cultures that obsess over it are the same ones who obsess over many "exotic" and poorly understood cultural beliefs from other parts of the world because little is known (by the obsessies) and there for it must be mystical and possess some sort of magical knowledge forgotten by "modern" society.

He also scoffed at people  who assumed because a certain city or civilization is no longer around it must have mysteriously vanished and the  complex languages, religious beliefs, and customs must have completely disintegrated into thin air.  This led to a long discussion about such things

When  the Roman empire collapsed, did Rome fully fall? Did all the people mysteriously vanish? No, Rome reformed, and much of what was roman territory simply became their own countries, and the people who lived there either assimilated or migrated, or stayed in place and like all cultures over time, their customs and beliefs changed over time. 

Of course these sort of things are hotly debated among people, particularly in the archaeological and anthropology fields, but I am quicker to listen to and believe the stories and oral histories from the Natives themselves than from the outside cultures that come in and try to interpret other's history through old artifacts that often takes them decades to even understand the uses of let alone cultural significance of to begin with.

The instant I saw that the whole calendar was a recurring set of cycles I knew that without any Mayans telling me. It's only logical. That calendar doesn't "end" ever. Couple that with the fact that it does last just exactly as long as the astronomers tell us a complete cycle of precession lasts, and Bingo, there you have it. I too am quicker to listen to those who really know than those that studied it from the outside for years and thus consider themselves "experts" at them. Great post.