21 Week Old Girls--Feed

[jkrueger_coop]

First off, just wanted to say thanks to the community. Needed a therapy project last winter and my lil ones, two 8 yrs olds wanted more pets--So I embarked down the rabbit hole of chicken keeping. Needless to say I have an 8x8 coop that will probably outlast my house along with an 8x16 foot run with will be expanded to 16x16 this spring summer.

I have 9 girls:
3 Silver Wyandotte
2 Colombian Wyandotte
3 Buff Orphingtons
1 Australorp

They were 1 day old acquired from McMurray Hatchery on July, 11. So they would be about 21 weeks old now.

I have been feeding country feeds chick starter grower feed medicated (Nutrena) from the beginning have been doing meal worms (handful occasionally)-when they were around 12 weeks, and a bit of mixed scratch grains and cracked corn recently for treats (1/2 cup) because its getting colder--Iowa, USA. Started to provide grit at same time as scratch grains and cracked corn.

I was wondering when to switch to layer pellets (Nutrena--NatureWise). They are not laying yet and also its colder and not as much sunlight hours. Coop does not have a light in it. My local source for feed only has medicated starter and grower and I read somewhere you don't want to eat eggs that have medication in them. But also read that you don't want to go to a layer feed until the first egg appears due to excess calcium hurting the girls development. And just to make it a bit more confusing the medicated starter grower on Nutrena's page says sole ration from hatch to 22 weeks and the layer pellets says sole ration beginning at 16 weeks.

Advise and opinions would be very much appreciated.

1st time BackYard Chicken Farmer,
-Krueger

 

[RonP]

Personally, I would start offering a second feeder with crushed oyster shells, free choice. They will know when they need some.

I would also replace their main food source with an All Flock ~20% protein.

I would keep them on this diet till the grave.

Welcome to the group!

 

[lazy gardener]

Welcome to BYC, and I bet your kids love the chickens!

Personally, if I had them on medicated feed in the beginning, I'd have taken them off the medication long ago. Amprolium is a Thiamine blocker and is not recommended past ?6 - 8 weeks of age.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Hi, welcome to BYC!

Lets see if I can throw another curve in there for you...

Those are all dual purpose breeds and will do better according to studies if fed 18% or so protein instead of the standard 16% that is usually in layer which is the MINIMUM for a light bodied layer like leghorn. In addition, higher protein feed has been shown to improve hatch rates, which says to me that my family is getting more nutrition when they consume the eggs. My link has a misprint that say 5-17% but should say 15-17%..
http://ucanr.edu/sites/poultry/files/186894.pdf

I personally NEVER switch to layer. I use Purina flock raiser which is 20% protein and I serve oyster shell free choice on the side for girls who are already laying. But that is because I ALWAYS have roosters, chicks, juveniles, and broody's who don't need the calcium and it just makes it easier for me to feed that way. I also NEVER use medicated feed and simply keep my brooder dry after the first time being fear mingered to buy medicated. Turn out that medication slows the growth of coccidia by blocking thiamine and starving them out. Cocci are present in every single chicken poo and only a problem when allowed to thrive out of control, usually in warm humid conditions like that of a brooder. Sometimes weather related on you pasture. And even possible in full grown chickens.

But really, I don't care what they call the feed, they are all just confusing terms that mean nothing. What does matter the most is protein (amino acids) and calcium levels essentially. With the choices you mention, I would go with the grower.

That being said, some people do use layer always and never NOTICE an issue. And those that do have kidney issues could possibly have genetic predisposition and could even have the same effect caused by too much protein (above 30%). Plus your girls may start laying a little later being dp breeds. I had a Wyandotte not start until 9 months. Hope that never happens again. Or was it my Delaware.. Either way, no way of knowing for sure, though as you get close their are definite signs.

I would skip the scratch, it diminishes protein. And I don't know why the myth that corn keeps bird warm perpetuates as it simply ISN'T true. Most chicken feeds are already made of mostly corn. Birds stay warm via an internal process that regulates body temperature and their down jackets they wear. A calorie is a calorie is a calorie whether it comes from corn or ground beef. Better to feed something with nutrients then empty calorie snacks. The bird will fill up to their CALORIE needs whether the proper nutrients are in there or not. I would only use the corn as a personal snack to interest them in me.

Anyways, hope this helps instead of making you more confused.

 

[jkrueger_coop]

Ok, to clarify my local feed supply is Theisens--so I do have a few more options, but would have to check. I want to be able to get one that is locally stock so I don't have to have it shipped there every time I need feed--convenience.

So if I'm understanding correctly from the posts above I should look for a feed of a higher protein content than layer---something around 20%. Secondly, find one that is not medicated!

Lastly, should I be getting one that has calcium in it? I know locally there is country feeds egg producer (Nutrena)...that's the last one I know for sure...there are more, just poor memory.

It's :
Guaranteed Analysis
Nutrient Level
Crude Protein, minimum 21.0%
Lysine, minimum 1.0%
Methionine, minimum 0.32%
Crude Fat, minimum 3.0%
Crude Fiber, maximum 4.5%
Calcium, minimum 3.45%
Calcium, maximum 3.95%
Phosphorus, minimum 0.9%
Salt, minimum 0.3%
Salt, maximum 0.45%
Sodium, minimum 0.15%
Sodium, maximum 0.18%

Do I need to supplement this with oyster shells? If so now before they start laying? Wait till after I see the first egg? (Really hope I don't have to wait 9 months like you did EggSighted4Life).

Or do I just find a feed the has lower to no calcium and higher protein? and wait to supplement with oyster shells till they start laying. Like an All flock feed suggested by RonP.


Thank you for your replies so far. All informative and yes you did throw me another curve ball EggSighted4Life--but it makes sense (dual purpose vs. straight egg layers).

I guess I should say that I was trying to find a feed that's also a pellet. They don't like eating the last of the crumbles because it's turned into dust by then and just gets wasted. Was hoping it would be less waste.

 

[junebuggena]

Layer feed is for actively laying birds only. All that extra calcium is not good for those that aren't using it to produce eggs shells. Birds that are laying can get all the calcium they need from crushed oyster shell, they do not need a feed with lots of calcium added.

 

[chickens really]

Hello...I also would leave them on the feed they are getting and once they lay eggs provide oyster shell on the side ..I never feed Layer feed..
Best wishes and welcome to our world of Birds...

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I guess I should say that I was trying to find a feed that's also a pellet.

The Purina flock raiser does come in pellets. My LFS stocks both. And Purina actually owns many feed brands under different names, but I think they still use fairly local mills. At least mine always come from the same state I'm in. In fact, I think Nutrena is owned by Purina... Most laying formulas will have about 4%.

Most feeds do have about 1% calcium in them if they aren't layer. I personally would go ahead and make the oyster shell (OS) available at any time, they will use it when they are ready and inspect it a little before then. It won't hurt them. Most of those breeds starting laying 20-24 weeks for me (but there's no telling of course). IF you use the one you posted the analysis for, then you may not go through very much OS. I hardly went through any when I did use layer in the beginning.

Flock raiser... is another one of those confusing terms. For your ladies I would go with something at least or about 18%, but not higher than 22% protein (could EVEN be unmedicated starter). Higher protein feeds are usually a tad more pricey. But that's because protein cost more than OS. For me I also like to read the ingredients list, so I spend a LOT of time looking at labels. It's part of the fun. If I like the ingredients of one over the other, that might determine which I choose! OS runs about $12 for 50# here.

If I was going to feed a layer formula (which means about 4% calcium), that one looks pretty good. And as much as I like to wait until seeing the first egg it does nothing for the ladies who lay later, you can switch when you are ready. Your girls will probably be fine. So don't feel all guilty or fear mongered. It's a personal choice.

 

[rosemarythyme]

I feed half grower mash (fermented) and half layer pellets, all my chickens are hens (but not laying due to molt). When they're laying I also have oyster shell on the side. Protein level on my feed is lower, about 16%, which is why for me fermenting is important, to make sure they're getting the protein from the grower as they'd otherwise not eat it.

I think all the different advice on here is showing is that everyone has a slightly different approach to feeding their flock. If you want to stick with the grower until at least one is laying (or just to use up the feed you already have), or if you want to switch to layer now, I think your chickens are getting close enough to laying that it won't make a huge difference either way.

 

[Cindy in PA]

Just be aware that Nutrena Naturewise chick starter did contain cottonseed meal, don't know if their country feeds one does. Only mention it, because if you feed that particular feed when they start laying eggs, cottonseed meal can turn eggs green (?) inside. Plus the fact I would never eat an egg from a hen fed cottonseed meal. It is one of the most pesticide laden things around.