4 hens to 1 rooster okay?

[GuppyTJ]

... There is different opinions out there about eating roosters but I have a chicken book called Storeya Guide to Raising Chickens by Gail Damerow and they say no. It's up to you I suppose and when you decide to kill them. The younger the better from what I can gather. Check the book out it has TONS of great in from from raising to slaughtering. I hope this helps

Hi Whitt910,

Where in Storey's Guide by Damerow do you read that is says you shouldn't eat roosters? I'm not finding this but I am finding the following passage that says you CAN/SHOULD eat them:

Page 362

"We raise meat birds as a by-product of keeping layers. Each spring, we hatch a batch of duel-purpose chicks to get replacement pullets. When the pullets are big enough to go out on range, we separate them and confine the surplus cockerals until they reach fryer size."

I've prepared several of my duel purpose layer cockerals for the dinner table and ate them. It works well for us and is a great way to honor the bird that you raised.

Thoughts?
Guppy

 

[whitt910]

Hi Whitt910,

Where in Storey's Guide by Damerow do you read that is says you shouldn't eat roosters? I'm not finding this but I am finding the following passage that says you CAN/SHOULD eat them:

Page 362

"We raise meat birds as a by-product of keeping layers. Each spring, we hatch a batch of duel-purpose chicks to get replacement pullets. When the pullets are big enough to go out on range, we separate them and confine the surplus cockerals until they reach fryer size."

I've prepared several of my duel purpose layer cockerals for the dinner table and ate them. It works well for us and is a great way to honor the bird that you raised.

Thoughts?
Guppy

It was in the meat bird section or where they were talking about culling. It was talking about ages of chickens and what they are classified as (broilers, fryers ect) and what age you can cull them. It was also talking about if they have large combs, wattles, and spurs they're too old to eat. It was a chart with all of this information. I tried to look at the book preview on amazon, but it's missing a lot of the pages so I don't know the exact page but when I get home this evening I will look it up and post the page number.

My understanding is that a cockerel and a rooster is two different things. A cockerel is a young rooster who hasn't reached sexual maturity and is less than 1 year old and is great eating. A rooster is sexually mature chicken who has reached mating age and is older than 1 year old. I believe it said that because the rooster has reached sexual maturity they will be tough and you would have to either pressure cook them or put them in the crock pot for a long time and they might be eatable.

I could be wrong or misinformed though so if you have better information please let me know. I have about two too many roosters that I would love to get rid of because they test their boundaries every day and attack me. The only reason I haven't killed them is because I didn't think it would be worth it. They're between 28-30 weeks old, they have full combs, wattle, spur beginning, crow and mate the hens. At what age did you butcher your cockerels?

 

[GuppyTJ]

It was in the meat bird section or where they were talking about culling. It was talking about ages of chickens and what they are classified as (broilers, fryers ect) and what age you can cull them. It was also talking about if they have large combs, wattles, and spurs they're too old to eat. It was a chart with all of this information. I tried to look at the book preview on amazon, but it's missing a lot of the pages so I don't know the exact page but when I get home this evening I will look it up and post the page number.

My understanding is that a cockerel and a rooster is two different things. A cockerel is a young rooster who hasn't reached sexual maturity and is less than 1 year old and is great eating. A rooster is sexually mature chicken who has reached mating age and is older than 1 year old. I believe it said that because the rooster has reached sexual maturity they will be tough and you would have to either pressure cook them or put them in the crock pot for a long time and they might be eatable.

I could be wrong or misinformed though so if you have better information please let me know. I have about two too many roosters that I would love to get rid of because they test their boundaries every day and attack me. The only reason I haven't killed them is because I didn't think it would be worth it. They're between 28-30 weeks old, they have full combs, wattle, spur beginning, crow and mate the hens. At what age did you butcher your cockerels?

I see what you're saying, no problem. Yes, your definition of a cockeral and a rooster are spot on with what I understand too. However, I've noticed that sometimes people use the term "rooster" generically when they're really talking about a cockeral. From reading Newbie32's original post and follow up questions, I think this is what's happening. This person doesn't know yet if he/she has boys (cockerals to become roosters) or girls (pullets to become hens) so is trying to figure out what to do. That means they're young birds still and definitely less than a year old, making them really cockerals.

So, in this case, Newbie32 can definitely eat the "roosters" The ideal age, when they're grown out enough but are still tender and good to eat is between 18 and 20 weeks. I've read this age in several reputable sources.

For you and your 28-30 week old cockerals, I personally (and this is a personal opinion) would try them for dinner. If they're not doing you any good as cockerals and they're harmful/annoying/just not nice to you in some way or to the flock, I'd cook them up. I believe that a flock with too many cockerals can (not is, can) be harmful to the flock, if the extra cockerals are by their presence creating conflict with the other cockerals and /or over-mating with the pullets. Plus, you have to spend money to feed them which for many people, is not ideal.

Maybe try to find a recipe that would work for a less tender cut of chicken, like you said, a crock pot or a stew or soup. Or something with a marinade or maybe one where you pound the meat to tenderize it. I use allrecipes.com a lot. I just used this recipe last night for one of my extra cockerals who was 20 weeks old when prep-ed him for dinner. I'm a vegetarian but my husband said it is delicious. I did try it (couldn't resist) and it was good.

http://allrecipes.com/recipe/oven-fried-chicken-iii/

Plus, I believe the chickens we raise taste much better than those we buy at the regular grocery store. Much more flavor. A little chewier and maybe a little more gamey tasting than those bland, tasteless chickens from the grocery store. And my chickens are healthier to eat than the factory farm chickens from the grocery store. Finally, I know what went into raising them and how they were raised so I have a deeper level of respect for the animal that gave it's life for my table.

I learned how to butcher my extra cockerals from following the directions in The Small-Scale Poultry Flock by Harvey Ussery. It has step by step instructions with color pics starting on page 286. It's not that hard to do once you get the hang of it but it is a bit time consuming. And killing the animal is for many of us, me included, the hardest part. I use the broomstick on the ground method, by the way. Using this method, I simply pull a little harder and the head comes off cleanly at which point, I hold the chicken over a bucket so the blood drains out. I've only done 4 chickens so far so I'm no expert by any means and don't mean to imply that I am. But, I am getting better at it, both emotionally and the mechanics of doing all of it, from start to finish.

I take the entrails, head, etc as an offering for the coyotes and fox that live in the area. I put them about a 1/2 mile away, as far away from my coop as I can but still on my property. I free range (no fence, no run, secured coop at night) on the edge of 3,000 acres of forest and I see coyotes about and hear them often. So, this is my peace offering to the wild animals that so far (knock on wood) have not taken any of my chickens. It's also another way for me to use every bit of the chicken that I raised and who's life I took.

So, if you don't cook up your 2 roosters, you may have alternatives, like re-homing them. In my case, this isn't much of an option as I've tried to give my extra cockerals away for free but zero interest or inquiries. Plus, I'm wary anyway of anyone taking them as I would wonder if they're not putting them in a cook pot themselves. I'd rather be the one to prepare them for dinner for my family if that is to be their fate.

Hope it this is helpful,
Guppy

 

[whitt910]

I see what you're saying. Yes, your definition of a cockeral and a rooster are spot on. However, many people use the term "rooster" when they're really talking about a cockeral. From reading Newbie32's original post and follow up questions, I think this is what's happening. This person doesn't know yet if he/she has boys (cockerals to become roosters) or girls (pullets to become hens) so is trying to figure out what to do. That means they're young birds still and definitely less than a year old, making them really cockerals.

So, in this case, Newbie32 can definitely eat the "roosters" The ideal age, when they're grown out enough but are still tender and good to eat is between 18 and 20 weeks. I've read this age in several reputable sources.

For you and your 28-30 week old cockerals, I personally (and this is a personal opinion) would try them for dinner. If they're not doing you any good as cockerals and they're harmful/annoying/just not nice to you in some way or to the flock, I'd cook them up. I believe that a flock with too many cockerals can (not is, can) be harmful to the flock, if the extra cockerals are by their presence creating conflict with the other cockerals and /or over-mating with the pullets. Plus, you have to spend money to feed them which for many people, is not ideal.

Maybe try to find a recipe that would work for a less tender cut of chicken, like you said, a crock pot or a stew or soup. Or something with a marinade or maybe one where you pound the meat to tenderize it. I use allrecipes.com a lot. I just used this recipe last night for one of my extra cockerals who was 20 weeks old when prep-ed him for dinner. I'm a vegetarian but my husband said it is delicious. I did try it (couldn't resist) and it was good.

http://allrecipes.com/recipe/oven-fried-chicken-iii/

Plus, I believe the chickens we raise taste much better than those we buy at the regular grocery store. Much more flavor. A little chewier and maybe a little more gamey tasting than those bland, tasteless chickens from the grocery store. And my chickens are healthier to eat than the factory farm chickens from the grocery store. Finally, I know what went into raising them and how they were raised so I have a deeper level of respect for the animal that gave it's life for my table.

I learned how to butcher my extra cockerals from following the directions in The Small-Scale Poultry Flock by Harvey Ussery. It has step by step instructions with color pics starting on page 286. It's not that hard to do once you get the hang of it but it is a bit time consuming. And killing the animal is for many of us, me included, the hardest part. I use the broomstick on the ground method, by the way. But, all in, I'm getting better at it, both emotionally and the mechanics of doing all of it, from start to finish.

If you don't cook up your 2 roosters, you may have alternatives, like re-homing them. In my case, this isn't much of an option as I've tried to give my extra cockerals away for free but zero interest or inquiries. Plus, I'm wary anyway of anyone taking them as I would wonder if they're not putting them in a cook pot themselves. I'd rather be the one to eat them if that is to be their fate.

Hope it this is helpful,
Guppy

Thanks Guppy! Yea I understand what Newbie32 is saying so I guess I got ahead of myself

I'm seriously thinking about it. I have 3 roosters ( 2 Buff Orps, and 1 RIR) and the 2 Buffs are horrible! Every day or every other day I constantly have to remind them that I am boss not them and it's not okay to attack me. They're so ornery and I guess they're just being good roo's to the girls and trying to protect them, but geez! My RIR roo is super sweet and docile, he come and visits me every night during their supervised larger free range. So far there really hasn't been an issue with the girls and they don't seem stressed or mind them much, but I've always wondered if 3 to 23 hens is too much. If i did cull I would probably just cull one of the Buff's because they are really good about taking care of the girls and I guess 2 would be better than 3.

I agree with you that what we produce in our backyard is way better than store bought. Even the eggs are so much different, brighter, darker, the albumen is stiffer so I would imagine fresh chicken meat would be better. I don't have a problem with the actually belief of killing them because I know that they've had an awesome life and are happy. Although like you I do find it a little tough when it comes to the actual act of killing them.

I agree with you on giving them away. I've tried I get no response and if they are going to be killed and eaten I would do it because I know in the end it was humane.

This was very helpful, thank you!

 

[GuppyTJ]

Thanks Guppy! Yea I understand what Newbie32 is saying so I guess I got ahead of myself

I'm seriously thinking about it. I have 3 roosters ( 2 Buff Orps, and 1 RIR) and the 2 Buffs are horrible! Every day or every other day I constantly have to remind them that I am boss not them and it's not okay to attack me. They're so ornery and I guess they're just being good roo's to the girls and trying to protect them, but geez! My RIR roo is super sweet and docile, he come and visits me every night during their supervised larger free range. So far there really hasn't been an issue with the girls and they don't seem stressed or mind them much, but I've always wondered if 3 to 23 hens is too much. If i did cull I would probably just cull one of the Buff's because they are really good about taking care of the girls and I guess 2 would be better than 3.

I agree with you that what we produce in our backyard is way better than store bought. Even the eggs are so much different, brighter, darker, the albumen is stiffer so I would imagine fresh chicken meat would be better. I don't have a problem with the actually belief of killing them because I know that they've had an awesome life and are happy. Although like you I do find it a little tough when it comes to the actual act of killing them.

I agree with you on giving them away. I've tried I get no response and if they are going to be killed and eaten I would do it because I know in the end it was humane.

This was very helpful, thank you!

All this makes sense to me. In terms of ratios, you have a good number of hens and most people/sources suggest 8-10 hens to 1 rooster as a regular target ratio. So your idea of keeping 2 roos would work. Three is not bad either, though given that you have 23 hens.

What you could try is getting your 2 buff roosters to respect you a bit more. Perhaps you already tried this but if not, I think it was WalkingonSunshine who posted in another thread techniques she uses to get her aggressive roos to recognize her as the boss. Others on BYC with more experience than me have posted on this topic too. You could try searching on things like "aggressive roo" etc. to find the information.

Good luck no matter what you decide!
Guppy

 

[whitt910]

All this makes sense to me. In terms of ratios, you have a good number of hens and most people/sources suggest 8-10 hens to 1 rooster as a regular target ratio. So your idea of keeping 2 roos would work. Three is not bad either, though given that you have 23 hens.

What you could try is getting your 2 buff roosters to respect you a bit more. Perhaps you already tried this but if not, I think it was WalkingonSunshine who posted in another thread techniques she uses to get her aggressive roos to recognize her as the boss. Others on BYC with more experience than me have posted on this topic too. You could try searching on things like "aggressive roo" etc. to find the information.

Good luck no matter what you decide!
Guppy

I will look up that board. I have tried things like standing my ground and not showing signs of being worried by them. That doesn't really work so what I have resorted to is when they come at me either smack them or kick (not hard of course) them away and then I chase them. This puts a stop to it for a few days and then they need to be reminded. I've even caught them and made them sit with me until they calmed down and that seems to work the best. I mean I raised these guys from tiny 2 or 3 day old puff balls so I don't know. I will have to go take a look at other boards or post one of my own and see what other advice I can get.

Thank you, you've been a lot of help!
Whitney

 

[newbie32]

First and foremost-Thank you guys for answering my question! I know I am new but could the aggressive behavior form the Orpingtons be because they have too much competition with there being 3 roos? Maybe they have a need to show the hens that they are the better protector and that's why they are like that? Or maybe I'm reading too much into it-male dogs can be fairly smart and I know they tend to be more aggressive with others when their in packs than when there is only 1 or 2

 

[whitt910]

First and foremost-Thank you guys for answering my question! I know I am new but could the aggressive behavior form the Orpingtons be because they have too much competition with there being 3 roos? Maybe they have a need to show the hens that they are the better protector and that's why they are like that? Or maybe I'm reading too much into it-male dogs can be fairly smart and I know they tend to be more aggressive with others when their in packs than when there is only 1 or 2

I can see what you're saying and maybe you're right.. I recently read an article about how smart chickens are and that they are one of only a few animals that if you take away an object they know that it is missing and have a sense of time and space. Maybe they are trying to show the girls who's boss and that the meanest one can protect them better.

 

[newbie32]

Yep that is probably it Cook the meanest one and your problem might be gone! Let me know how it works out please because I will most likely be getting a n Orpington roo for my little flock. Too bad you don't live in my area-I would've gladly taken one off your hands.

 

[GuppyTJ]

I can see what you're saying and maybe you're right.. I recently read an article about how smart chickens are and that they are one of only a few animals that if you take away an object they know that it is missing and have a sense of time and space. Maybe they are trying to show the girls who's boss and that the meanest one can protect them better.

Based on what I've read, your ratio of 23 hens to 3 roos is not bad. The ratio to shoot for is 8 to 10 hens to 1 rooster, so 23 to 3 is not way off. You could try penning the most mean Orp off by himself away from the flock for a few days and see if this changes the dynamic for your 23 hens and 2 remaining roos. The reason I suggest this is it's an easy thing to try if you have some old fencing and a few poles and a place you can lock him up safely at night away from predators. Killing him is irrevocable and final. Penning is temporary. You could even pen one, see how it goes. If the flock dynamic doesn't improve, put that one back with the flock and pen the other Opr. This just gives you lots of flexibility to try things and get the best flock dynamic you can.

If it helps, I've only got 7 pullets and I'm *trying* to keep 2 cockerals. All the chickens in the flock are young, just about 21 weeks old and I just put my 2 cockerals back with the pullets, after picking the 2 out from a group of 8 cockerals (the other 6 I prepared for the dinner table). I realize this ratio of 7 hens to 2 roosters is WAY off. The reason to keep2 is that I free range (no fence, no run, secured coop at night) on the edge of 3,000 acres of national forest. So, I've got a very high predator risk and I've never done this before. I hope to keep a primary rooster and a backup rooster. So far, only the primary cockeral is mating with the pullets and the backup cockeral is pretty much just hanging out. The 2 cockerals get along well so far, no fighting. Which is how I hope it stays! I'll just keep an eye on it and if the dynamic doesn't work out, I'll deal with it then. But so far, so good.

Hope this helps,
Guppy