5th chick dying in my hands right now - help!

[seminolewind]

Melissa, I do appreciate you posting the prelim. Helps to learn from it.

Sounds to me like you have Marek's, and along with Marek's goes a poor immune system, and the bird catches bad things easily, which looks like she did.

I had 7 chicks that were 2x vaccinated for Marek's and at 8-10 weeks, 3 died of coccidiosis/enteritis (blood hemorrhage at death and no symptoms the day before) I lost 3. Then another 2 got one eye infections and died. If your flock has Marek's, you should have Corid in your emergency bag because they go hand in hand.

That may explain why you have several things going on. And worms.

 

[familypendragon]

Melissa, I do appreciate you posting the prelim.  Helps to learn from it.

Sounds to me like you have Marek's, and along with Marek's goes a poor immune system, and the bird catches bad things easily, which looks like she did.

I had 7 chicks that were 2x vaccinated for Marek's and at 8-10 weeks, 3 died of coccidiosis/enteritis (blood hemorrhage at death and no symptoms the day before)  I lost 3.  Then another 2 got one eye infections and died.  If your flock has Marek's, you should have Corid in your emergency bag because they go hand in hand.

That may explain why you have several things going on.  And worms.

Hm, what on the prelim makes you think Mareks? Anything is possible though I don't think its Mareks - the symptoms don't seem to match. But who knows - I just wish they'd tell me they tested for xyz and it is positive for x or whatever.

 

[seminolewind]

Okay. I found an interesting to-the-point article by UC Davis. Then I looked at my necropsy report , took the words, and looked up the meanings. It's good you brought it up.

What is really interesting is that with all this evidence, I had a Negative pcr for Marek's!!!!! Even with all these findings.

re: UC Davis
Poultry
Marek’s Disease (MD) is a common, acute or chronic, very contagious, and economically
important disease of poultry, caused by an alpha herpes virus, named Marek’s disease virus
(MDV). There is wide variation in pathogenicity
among the strains of MDV, which range from nonpathogenic
to very virulent. MD has been reported
in turkeys, quail and pheasants; however,
chickens of any age are by far the most susceptible
species. MD is the most common disease diagnosed
in California backyard chicken flocks.
MD infection occurs by inhalation of feather and
dander epithelial cells containing infectious virus.
Common clinical conditions include lymphomas
(lymphoid tumors) in multiple internal organs,
peripheral nerves, feather follicles, and eyes; immunosuppression;
transient paralysis; lymphoid
tissue degeneration; and vascular syndromes. Microscopic lesions due to MD can be seen as
early as 2 weeks of age. As a result of MD, flocks may have reduced weight gain, egg production
and feed conversion; and increased susceptibility to other pathogens. Other problems include
increased mortality in layers, and increased condemnation rate in broilers, which can be
as high as 60% and 10% respectively in unvaccinated flocks. Histopathological examination of
affected organs, including peripheral nerves, is very useful for diagnosing MD. Since 1970,
MD has been controlled very successfully through vaccination which can provide greater
than 90% protection if done properly. Interestingly, MD vaccine protects birds only from
tumor formation, not from infection. MD was the first cancer that was successfully controlled
through vaccination in any species, one of the most remarkable achievements of veterinary
medicine. MD vaccination in commercial poultry is performed mostly by in ovo injection at the
19th day of embryo development, but can also be controlled successfully with subcutaneous
vaccination in the neck of day-old chicks.

My findings in my necropsy report: Negative Marek's. Positive Aspergillosis

Pulmonary neoplasia or granuloma :
metastasis/cancer

Aspergillosis: Fungal balls. Mass in lungs(?)

Lymphoreticular hyperplasia and/or spleen lesions
cause by Marek's, tumors (?)

Intralesional hepatonecrosis:
Dying liver tissue between lesions on liver

Sapropytic fungi:
Grows on dead organic matter or dead animals or poop

Lesions are damaged skin
Neoplasms are tumors or abnormal growths

chicken fat fibrin mass in heart -

Jaundice in mucosa/mouth/trach, and in dermis (under epidermis)-system shut down

Some of this seems opportunistic due to low immune system or dying.
Some of this just describes Marek's , I think, to a T, but a Negative pcr??? Does anyone notice these things and question it?
Maybe someone can explain this discrepancy better? I know that Nambroth had some discrepancies as well.
I hope I made this easier to understand.
If you read Nambroth's BIG Marek's FAQ, link at bottom of my page, Nambroth's, Casportpony's and Eggcessive's , you can also see that Marek's can have a large variety of symptoms and those symptoms may be the same in several different illnesses. A flock history can help clarify. But nothing here is an "always".

 

[familypendragon]

OK, FINALLY - have the final results. Well I haven't gotten any new paperwork, but the vet called and talked me through it all. Aspergillosis, Mareks, and all the other diseases mentioned were negative. It is mycoplasma and pseudomonas pneumonia with some other opportunistic bacteria thrown in but which he didn't feel was really of any importance at this point. He said if it were him he would kill the flock and start fresh in 6 months to a year. Short of that he recommended 2 weeks of doxycycline in the waterers and see how they do. I am going to cull any currently symptomatic birds, and then cull any that develop symptoms after treatment. Eventually I will either have no birds or resistant birds. I read that the egg withholding is only 72 hours with this med so that is a relief too. So there we have it. Finally at long last. Why every other treatment for myco hasn't worked is a mystery - but I hope this one does.

In other news, hubby is finishing up his first of 7 weeks of radiation/chemo. Its been a bit rough, but he's trudging ahead. Positive thoughts on all fronts welcome

 

[lovingmyhens]

From the beginning I've been praying-for everything!! I'll continue to do so. Very glad you've got a firm answer on the chickens. Moving on!!!

 

[MrsBachbach]

Well, at least you now have an answer and with an answer, you now have a plan. I'd spray the heck out of the coops every week with the oxine, and keep oxine in the water when you are done with the antibiotics. I read a little about that pneumonia and I don't know if it's different with chickens, but it sounds like a bad deal for people! So, I would use the oxine heavily.

Prayers to you and your husband. I wish him a speedy recovery.

 

[familypendragon]

Oh geeze, they just called with the total for the meds. It would be $210 to make up 4 gallons per day. That brings the total bill now up to $560! Gah! That is to make up 1500 mg per gallon. So 6000 mg per day for 14 days. I see 100 mg packets for sale on ebay of bird biotic doxycycline for $49 for 60 packets of 100 mg. So that is even worse. I'd need 14 of those! $686 for just the meds!! Ugh! I should just kill them all. I know that. But I don't think I can. This sucks so bad.

 

[lilbittheduck]

Im so sorry! :'( I dont know if this would have helped or not, but one of our ducks was dying so we gave her sugar water for energy. Im really sorry.

 

[Kelsie2290]

Very glad your husband is getting to the end of treatment, good luck with the rest of it, hope he has a full uneventful recovery yet, your family has really had a rough time.
Finally you at least seem to have gotten an answer on the birds. Yikes with the meds. You are dealing with Mycoplasma gallisepticum? If you keep the current flock and treat, what did they say about the possibility that some would still be silent carriers, giving you a problem if you bring in new birds later? Would any other tetracycline meds work? or if you could treat a smaller number by hand?

 

[tridentk9]

There was a recent (within the past few years) shortage of Doxy. And then the price went up. FYI- check with Costco, etc.

One of my dogs had pseudomonas infection in his ears. Baytril for a 150 pound dog is uber-expensive even at cost. A month or two of treatment. Good thing I liked him ;-) Pseudomonas in dogs is very difficult to get rid of. I hope chickens are easier.