6-wk old runners crashing :: update: necropsy results p. 3

[Inverso]

Don't think it's the niacin this time - they've been getting supplemental niacin since day 1 either in their water or crushed in their feed. There are so many variables, aren't there!?

 

[WadeMD]

This idea of "medicated feed being bad" needs to go away.... the feed companies do not use those antibiotics anymore in their preparations due to these concerns. Feed is NOT the problem unless the feed does not contain enough niacin, etc.

Based on your symptoms, they most likely have an infection. Respiratory infections don't really translate as something you can hear/see in their behavior. The airsacks become massively inflamed, they get less O2 and eventually you see these types of symptoms. Start dosing heavily with your broad spectrum antibiotic (please don't dump it into local waters when you clean out the water container tho!) and keep going with vitamins and greens. If they degrade to the point of not eating, its a really bad sign and difficult for them to recover from - although the older they are, the easier it gets. I didn't recognize the signs in my ducklings and lost 3 of 11 when the infection hit. The antibiotics early in life won't hurt them nor will it translate into their eggs down the road - most antibiotics are unmeasurable after a couple of weeks off of them.

Best of luck with treating them!

 

[SDChef]

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I agree that some medicated feed is ok. I use Nutrena chick starter/grower and it is medicated with Amprolium which is safe for waterfowl. I have had no issues with any of my birds in the 2 weeks I have had them. I do however put sprinkle a bit of niacin (CVS Brand Capsules) into their water every other water change. But as for Medicated feed, as long as you are using a respectable brand and you make sure they are using a safe antibiotic you are only giving them a better chance at survival.

However The lady who runs my local feed store said that those who are raising their birds for meat should probably not use the medicated feed since it may still be in their system when it comes time to butcher. And I trust her because she only carries the best products and has the healthiest, cleanest animals that she takes care of herself.

 

[WadeMD]

However The lady who runs my local feed store said that those who are raising their birds for meat should probably not use the medicated feed since it may still be in their system when it comes time to butcher. And I trust her because she only carries the best products and has the healthiest, cleanest animals that she takes care of herself.

FDA publishes clearance time for various drugs commonly used in livestock/poultry - that information is on the web if you search. I believe Holderead's book gives times for some of them? (could be remembering that wrong) - but yes, you have to have them off of the antibiotic a certain amount of time before butchering - or eating eggs in rare cases (many antibiotics don't get packaged into the eggs).

Once mine cleared their infection (7-10 days requirement of treatment period, don't stop when the signs regress) I have not had to give them anything else - and they are perfectly healthy now.​

 

[Inverso]

Update time.

Things were going fine through yesterday - Duck 2 fought off whatever this was and is doing super. Duck 1 was on amprolium and tetracycline through yesterday and was eating better every day and starting to move around a bit, though not standing all the way up very much. Today she won't touch any food even when hand fed, and she won't get up.

The only difference is that the amprolium was removed (the treatment time was up) and she went back on the vitamins that I had to stop giving since they apparently interfere with the amprolium. So... I had gotten my hopes up since she lasted a whole week and was improving. I guess I shouldn't have.

 

[spamee34]

Some very wise person told me on here that most sickness's come from ph balances in their body. So he said add apple cidar vinegar to their water and it worked any time any of my babies get sick they get the apple cidar and in a few days are fine. I put one tsp for each cup and it works great. And with ducks they love those potatoe flakes with a bit of water sprinkled on them do it and watch em go crazy. And it's good for em the starch will help the diarhea.

 

[tia]

They sure are cute.... I like the penciled guy.... I hope you figure out what is going on. Sounds like they are improving.

 

[Inverso]

Bad news -- the penciled runner didn't make it.

I really thought as late as Thursday that she was getting better. I may take her in for a necropsy. Anybody know how they'd want the body preserved until the lab opens on Monday?

 

[chickboss]

I'm sorry. I don't know about the body, maybe freeze it?

 

[WadeMD]

Freezing works OK as that's your best option at home (it does cause some destruction of the tissue due to ice crystal formation). Typically, they would drop it into formalin for 24 hours first, but that isn't easy to come by and the truth is you'd have to dissect out organs to have them preserve properly. (I worked in a pathologist's lab in grad school.)

The idea that you can "fix" problems by feeding them vinegar that reduces body pH is laughable. Internal (blood) pH is determined by CO2 concentration and proton release by cells in contact with the blood supply. If larger animals were that responsive to pH, we would have a hard time of it. What feeding vinegar does do is impacts any parasites that might be living in the birds crops or esophagus before the stomach, but little else.