7 wk chick can't walk - Update: botulism? - 6th day - new pic

[ArizonaDesertChicks]

She's an 8 week old Welsummer (8 weeks last Monday). I weighed her today and she is just under 1 1/2 lb (I"m not sure what her correct weight should be at 8 weeks).

I don't believe she has worms. She was kept inside for the 1st 4 weeks of life, so had only been outside for 3 1/2 weeks when this hit and even then, all chicks were kept in a pen that is off limits to the adult chickens (it's at the other side of the yard from the adult hens). Her other 13 buddies are all thriving - I'm assuming she found something to eat that they didn't or the new feed I bought was bad and she ate more of it than the others did. She's too young and hasn't had time to pick up Marek's either (only been outside for 3 1/2 weeks when this hit and Marek's has a much longer incubation period than that.) No blood in droppings - droppings were green and runny when she was being flushed, but are normal now.

I found one thread that had a BO recover in just 24 hours from botulism -- I kept hoping my chick's recovery would also be swift, but no suck luck. She is holding steady - no progress in the last 3 days, but she hasn't gotten worse either.


Her progress is as follows:

Day 1 and 2 - she could stand, but not well. Would lay down down to eat.


Day 3 - she could no longer stand at all - I thought her neck was paralyzed too, but now I'm not so sure. I gave her a couple flushes of epsom salts and then molasses followed with electrolytes. Later that day, I discovered she would eat on her own if I left food for her.

Day 4-6 (today) -- she has been the same (She's in good spirits - very alert, chirps/purrs when we sit with her while she eats, grooms/preens herself, but has no use of her legs. They are not totally paralyzed - but she has no control over them. Instead of yogurt, I sprinkle acidophilus (multidophilus) on her feed and she also loves to peck at the drops of polyvisol I drip onto her crumbles several times a day. Her water has apple cider vinegar in it (dosage is 1 T per gallon - same dosage as I use for the other chickens). That's all she's been eating, but is still pooping about 10 times per day and they are normal poops.


This was taken 10 minutes ago (her neck is fine - she reaches around behind to preen her back feathers). She looks better than the previous picture, but that's just because she was in a different position in the last pic - she seems exactly the same today as she's been the last two days.

 

[chkn]

And you are using the polyvisol that doesn't have the iron in it? How do her leg and leg joints look and how do they compare to your other chicks?

 

[ArizonaDesertChicks]

Yes - the polyvisol does not have iron. Her legs and joints look normal size - she just can't control her legs. When I pick her up to change her paper towel diapers, she flails her legs about and her head/neck goes down between them. Once I giver her more support and she relaxes, she is able to move her neck and head around fine again and the legs just hang - when laying down, the legs are always in front - both stick out in front of her.

I take her out of her styrofoam container and let her sleep on soft surfaces at night for comfort - but keep her in that container during the day so she be propped up and can eat and drink anytime she needs. I thought about making a sling, but wasn't sure where she would put her neck when she wanted to doze off.

No change at all today either. I'm wondering if I should try another flush?

 

[kelar]

I'm sorry to say that this really looks like Mareks to me. It is the classic pose. There is no pain with the disease, so they often eat, drink etc. just like normal, but have no use of their legs. The virus is everywhere - she could have been exposed in 100 different ways. Also, you could have a carrier in your adult flock, even though you may never know which one(s).

 

[coolchickens]

I went thru exactly the same thing 2 mos. ago with a young pullet about 7 wks old. I still don't know if it was Mareks disease or botulism or what but what I used fixed her up and she is now walking around. I read lots of threads and found one on a natural herb called Hypericum (Perforatum Hypericum to be exact) You can probably do a search to find it. I think I searched "Mareks disease" and found it. Anyway, not knowing what I was dealing with I went for the natural tx. as I had nothing to lose and was losing ground. My pullet could no longer stand at all, would fall to the side if not proped up, one leg out in front the other in back, toes curled up, legs paralyzed. I had tried both Sulmet, then switched to Tylan 50. I finally did the Hypericum as it says it is the only thing that possibly could help Mareks. Many will say nothing does. I have evidence that at least the herb got my chicken from being paralyzed to normal walking and no more twisting back and forth neck. It has taken me 2 mos. of giving the drops ea. AM & PM but it WORKED! So far she appears normal. I've just started taking her for walks around the property and digging bugs. You might want to try it and see. I gave up on it after 1 mo. and stopped it for 2 days. She got worse, totally unable to walk. Started it again and within 2 days she was standing again so continued it. I almost gave up...now I'm glad I didn't.

 

[coolchickens]

Okay - Here is the info I found on the thread. I don't know how to attach the thread so I copied the info below for you. If you want more, do a search on "hypericum" and this thread will appear. Good luck with your chicken and I hope it all works as well as it did for mine.
****

This isn't an emergency, just a helpful tidbit of information to help. Despite what you may have heard, there IS a cure for Marek's Disease. It is a homeopathic remedy called "Hypericum." Hypericum is a small creeping herb that, when used hollistically, numbs nerves and dulls pain. When given to a bird suffering from the symptoms of Marek's Disease, it will cure the bird by working on the theory that "like cures like," in other words, by giving the bird the symptoms it will take the symptoms away. I've used this herb with great success to fully cure birds of Marek's Disease. You can fnd Hypericum at health food stores, $8 for 100 tablets. Hypericum must be diluted before it can be used:

- 1 tablespoon of DISTILLED water per tablet Hypericum (must be distilled water, tap water is ionized and will deactivate the Hypericum)
- MUST be mixed in a GLASS or PLASTIC bowl (metal with react with the water and herb)
- drip 5-10 drops (bantam) or 10-15 drops (large fowl) on the afflicted bird's tongue. Be sure the bird rubs its beak together because the Hypericum MUST touch the sinuses (located on the roof of the mouth) in order to work
- treat every 12 hours (morning and night) with a fresh batch
- recovery may be as quick as 1 day or as slow as several months

The treatment works best if you begin treating early. If you delay treatment, the Hypericum may not work or it may be a very slow recovery. IF YOU OVERDOSE YOUR BIRDS ON HYPERICUM, don't worry. The bird will exhibit extreme symptoms, and make a drastic improvment within a 24 hours. Hypericum is also helpful for pain. Only treat birds that are showing symptoms.

 

[chkn]

I was going to suggest looking into the hypericum but I know too little about it. This may be the thread coolchickens is referring to:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=135247

There was another thread with a bird pictured same symptoms of feet sticking out front:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=378897

And on page 3 it links to another long thread with a youtube video. Lots of people working on similar problems there:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=371501&p=5

 

[Raven81]

i dont know much about chickens but i know that homeopathy works. the term "like cures like" is indeed right i 1st came in contact with homeopathy 2 yrs ago & i will always no matter what animal ( or human) or what ailment ill go homeopathy 1st before vet drugs, 9 times out of 10 i dont need to call the vet, unless i dont know what the problem actually is..
also my homeopathic supplier is very helpful if i have a serious problem ( with cows usually) she can make up a brew for the certain situation that im facing.

 

[Mahonri]

If it were bad feed, (botulism) wouldn't the other birds be having symptoms?

I'm guessing Marek's.

ETA: every bird you ever own will need to be vaccinated for Marek's now if that's what it is.

 

[ArizonaDesertChicks]

The reason I thought it was bad feed, is because her symptoms showed up the day after I switched feed the feed and the chicks didn't seem to like the new feed. Most of the chicks would not eat it - I though maybe she ate more than the others. But.... most of them ate some after I moistened it 6 days ago, and the rest did not come down with anything yet. Maybe this was just a coincidence.


Maybe it is Marek's after all? I thought this chick was too young, especially since she never set foot outside till she was almost 4 weeks old. After doing more research, it seems that Marek's can take as little as 4 weeks to show after being exposed and chicks can get it as soon as 8 weeks. She's still on the young side, but yesterday I saw her sitting with her mouth open twice and that also seems to be a sign of Marek's - it can move up and paralize their respiratory system.

http://partnersah.vet.cornell.edu/avian-atlas/search/disease


I'm still kind of in shock that my chick probably has Marek's and has it so young. I've been raising chickens for 2 years and have started new batches of chicks 7 times now (this is the 7th), without signs of Marek's disease. I did lose 1 five month old Splash Orpington pullet with lameness once, but she did not have the typical leg posture with 1 leg out front and 1 behind or even both legs out front. The orpington could move and curl her toes, which my Welsummer chick cannot, plus she started out being sleepy - we even did an autopsy on her (not professional, but I posted pics here on BYC and we couldn't find tumors anywhere in her body - it didn't seem to be Marek's).

The Orpington was in my 3rd batch of chicks - the rest of her buddies and the next batches of chicks have all been fine until this one. My Easter Eggers I purchased from My Pet Chicken 1 year ago (after the Orp died) were very healthy - no problems. I have several pullets that I hatched last Feb (9 months old now) and some frizzles that I bought from a feed store in April (7 months now) and no problems with them at all. I am worried about my new batch - I'm hoping this chick is just an isolated case.

According to the post on HYPERICUM, it looks like I may be too late to start. "The treatment works best if you begin treating early. If you delay treatment, the Hypericum may not work or it may be a very slow recovery." She's already been showing symptoms for 8 days now.

My entire flock had been unvaccinated until last Feb, when I purchased two adult hens (1st time I had ever added chickens over 4 weeks old to my flock). My original flock and a few of the subsequent batches came from a feed store and couldn't be vaccinated (the chicks at the feed store are kept about 10 feet away from the area where adult chickens are also kept - no way to vaccinate before exposure). This hadn't been a problem - I didn't have a problem with Marek's, so I didn't vaccinate any of my online purchased chicks either. This last February, I purchased 2 hens that I believe were vaccinated from Marek's. Could they have shed the virus to my flock? Or introduced a new strain? Although..... My chicks hatched that same month (Feb, 2010) did not come down with Marek's disease - they're a happy and healthy bunch.