9 month old pullet very weak, not eating or drinking

[tripletfeb]

Thanks for all your help, both of you. I have an email out to a lab to see what my next steps are. I tried calling but of course, they are closed until Monday. I will get info on how to send Peggy in for a necropsy, I know that once she dies, her body needs to be kept cold but not frozen. I have no issues culling her if she gets even worse but I figured, that needs to wait until I can send her off. I'm still praying that it's not ocular marek's but I was afraid of that as soon as I saw her pupil. Will keep this thread updated

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I agree, the eye looks different.

Hopefully those that have dealt with Ocular Form of Marek's can weigh in. @coach723 @microchick

In the meantime, I'd keep her hydrated and eating. The vitamins won't hurt.

I'm sorry she's not feeling well.

 

[microchick]

Good morning all and thankyou for the tag @Wyorp Rock.

@tripletfeb I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this. I regret to say that I agree with everyone that you are more than likely dealing with ocular Marek's in your flock. Everything fits the symptomology. Birds with MD have problems maintaining a normal body weight. Often they will stop eating as the disease progresses or eat like teenagers but not gain any weight. I suspect it is because of the tumors they develop secondary to MD that causes the latter. But your girl's eye is pretty much standard with OMD. I had three birds with OMD and they survived for approximately 18 months after diagnosis. They were either mostly blind with partial vision or blind in one eye. But found their way around enough to find food and water.

OMD is a painful form of Marek's. It is the same as herpes eye infections in humans so try to keep the bright light down around her. You can try giving her a baby aspirin and see if that helps.

My birds with the disease developed a sudden decline in neurological function when the end came for them. All acted as though they had strokes, one sided weakness, seizures, etc. When that happened I culled them immediately.

Banana Split. Her eyes look different than Peggy's so I'm wondering if the pigmentation isn't just 'normal' for her.

What to do? I agree with everyone also with this. Until you can get a solid diagnosis consider your flock positive for Marek's and close it. Your birds without symptoms are now carriers of the disease. There was nothing you could do to prevent this from happening. Wild birds may have brought it onto your property or even the wind carries it so other than living in a domed bubble you can't prevent it from happening.

If Peggy can survive this onset she may live for awhile for you but birds that survive the onset will develop secondary problems from the disease and perish from those. The good news is not all of your birds will die. Some will but some will survive and those birds will be resistant.

I invite you to read my article about my experiences with the disease:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...-i-learned-to-deal-with-mareks-disease.76944/

I went almost 6 years without a suspicious death from the disease until earlier this year when I had a year old rooster suddenly present with emaciation and weakness/shortness of breath. Thought I was in the clear but it reminded me that it is always around.

Hang in there. Things will get better. You were saying that you didn't know what to look for in the eyes? Here is a picture of a typical chicken eye with ocular Marek's disease.

The eye on the right is the eye with MD. The iris color will be either a sickly green or a green/gray color. The pupil will be either pin point and misshapen or I have seen some that are wide and misshapen. My bird's eyes were always the same, tiny pupil, misshaped pupil and the sickly green gray color. Since your bird is emaciated I can't help but wonder if she doesn't have internal visceral tumors along with the ocular problems. Time will tell. But I do agree with having a necropsy done when the time comes.

Blessings to you and your flock,
Becky

 

[tripletfeb]

Good morning all and thankyou for the tag @Wyorp Rock.

@tripletfeb I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this. I regret to say that I agree with everyone that you are more than likely dealing with ocular Marek's in your flock. Everything fits the symptomology. Birds with MD have problems maintaining a normal body weight. Often they will stop eating as the disease progresses or eat like teenagers but not gain any weight. I suspect it is because of the tumors they develop secondary to MD that causes the latter. But your girl's eye is pretty much standard with OMD. I had three birds with OMD and they survived for approximately 18 months after diagnosis. They were either mostly blind with partial vision or blind in one eye. But found their way around enough to find food and water.

OMD is a painful form of Marek's. It is the same as herpes eye infections in humans so try to keep the bright light down around her. You can try giving her a baby aspirin and see if that helps.

My birds with the disease developed a sudden decline in neurological function when the end came for them. All acted as though they had strokes, one sided weakness, seizures, etc. When that happened I culled them immediately.

Banana Split. Her eyes look different than Peggy's so I'm wondering if the pigmentation isn't just 'normal' for her.

What to do? I agree with everyone also with this. Until you can get a solid diagnosis consider your flock positive for Marek's and close it. Your birds without symptoms are now carriers of the disease. There was nothing you could do to prevent this from happening. Wild birds may have brought it onto your property or even the wind carries it so other than living in a domed bubble you can't prevent it from happening.

If Peggy can survive this onset she may live for awhile for you but birds that survive the onset will develop secondary problems from the disease and perish from those. The good news is not all of your birds will die. Some will but some will survive and those birds will be resistant.

I invite you to read my article about my experiences with the disease:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...-i-learned-to-deal-with-mareks-disease.76944/

I went almost 6 years without a suspicious death from the disease until earlier this year when I had a year old rooster suddenly present with emaciation and weakness/shortness of breath. Thought I was in the clear but it reminded me that it is always around.

Hang in there. Things will get better. You were saying that you didn't know what to look for in the eyes? Here is a picture of a typical chicken eye with ocular Marek's disease.
View attachment 3858035
The eye on the right is the eye with MD. The iris color will be either a sickly green or a green/gray color. The pupil will be either pin point and misshapen or I have seen some that are wide and misshapen. My bird's eyes were always the same, tiny pupil, misshaped pupil and the sickly green gray color. Since your bird is emaciated I can't help but wonder if she doesn't have internal visceral tumors along with the ocular problems. Time will tell. But I do agree with having a necropsy done when the time comes.

Blessings to you and your flock,
Becky

Thanks for responding. I did read your article last night. And I'm afraid I agree with everyone about the diagnoses. Peggy is still hanging on this morning but has not eaten. So, I think I will have to cull her and she will be who I send for the necropsy. I'm just waiting until tomorrow so I can call my state lab and get the info I need to send her in. They are closed on the weekend. I'm devastated about this but we will hang on and keep trucking. It's all we can do. From one Becky to another, thanks again

 

[tripletfeb]

I just thought of another question. My husband and I have been looking into getting meat birds. Is that a no go now or can we still do that? I was hoping that since they were butchered young, it wasn't a big deal. Could we still safely eat the meat birds even though they would be exposed to Marek's?

 

[microchick]

Thanks for responding. I did read your article last night. And I'm afraid I agree with everyone about the diagnoses. Peggy is still hanging on this morning but has not eaten. So, I think I will have to cull her and she will be who I send for the necropsy. I'm just waiting until tomorrow so I can call my state lab and get the info I need to send her in. They are closed on the weekend. I'm devastated about this but we will hang on and keep trucking. It's all we can do. From one Becky to another, thanks again

Thank you, Becky.

As for the meat bird question, I'm not certain. Marek's usually hits initially around 9 weeks of age. My first bird with ocular Marek's presented with 'funky eye' as I call it when she was about the same age as your bird is. She was a buff Orpington and was setting her first clutch of eggs when it occurred. At the time I thought she had been pecked in the eye and didn't give it a second thought until much later. I think she was around 12 or 13 months old at the time.

So if birds experience their first symptoms at 9 weeks would that affect them as meat birds? May be in that time period so IDK. Just speculating here that they may be harder to 'bulk up' to their desirable weight for the freezer. I do remembering reading somewhere that MD hits meat producers hard which was one of the motivations for developing a vaccine for it.

You may want to pose that question with your state lab when you talk to them. The head lab tech at MIZOU was wonderful and more than willing to answer questions for me when I talked to them.

Please let us know what you find out with your necropsy. Just remember. It isn't the end of keeping chickens. It's just going to make it harder and more challenging.

 

[tripletfeb]

Peggy seemed better today. She was eating, drinking, and moving around. I let her out to forage with her sisters for quite a few hours. I did put her back in her dog cage for the night, she was laying in the nest box. And I didn't want that to become habit and I'm afraid she can't perch. So, she has her food and water in there with her and I'll check her again in the morning. I know that she can get bad again but I didn't want to cull her if she seems better. I'm treating my flock as marek's positive so I figure, the necropsy can wait until one of them goes

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Thanks for responding. I did read your article last night. And I'm afraid I agree with everyone about the diagnoses. Peggy is still hanging on this morning but has not eaten. So, I think I will have to cull her and she will be who I send for the necropsy. I'm just waiting until tomorrow so I can call my state lab and get the info I need to send her in. They are closed on the weekend. I'm devastated about this but we will hang on and keep trucking. It's all we can do. From one Becky to another, thanks again

I just thought of another question. My husband and I have been looking into getting meat birds. Is that a no go now or can we still do that? I was hoping that since they were butchered young, it wasn't a big deal. Could we still safely eat the meat birds even though they would be exposed to Marek's?

I'm sorry she's not doing too well.

As for the meat birds...that's a great question and I don't know if anyone can fully answer that.

Where were you planning on raising the meaties? In a separate area, tractoring them or?

I'm not a fan of the vaccine since it doesn't prevent infection from the virus, but it's something to consider if you are planning to raise birds and you have confirmation of Marek's in your flock. It may help meaties to get to full growth potential. They may do fine without it; a lot depends on how much exposure they would have to your existing flock(s) and how careful you are with biosecurity. It would be a real pain to keep up with biosecurity consistently.

As for being "exposed" likely the meat is fine, it's when birds start to have symptoms of the disease that it seems that meat/carcasses are condemned.
This link is quite old, no telling how many years I've had it, so things may have changed. It's from the Food and Agricultural Organization or something like that. Anyway, it shows certain diseases, what is condemned and what's o.k.

If you have a sensitive tummy, be warned, I suppose. https://www.fao.org/4/t0756e/T0756E08.htm

 

[tripletfeb]

I'm sorry she's not doing too well.

As for the meat birds...that's a great question and I don't know if anyone can fully answer that.

Where were you planning on raising the meaties? In a separate area, tractoring them or?

I'm not a fan of the vaccine since it doesn't prevent infection from the virus, but it's something to consider if you are planning to raise birds and you have confirmation of Marek's in your flock. It may help meaties to get to full growth potential. They may do fine without it; a lot depends on how much exposure they would have to your existing flock(s) and how careful you are with biosecurity. It would be a real pain to keep up with biosecurity consistently.

As for being "exposed" likely the meat is fine, it's when birds start to have symptoms of the disease that it seems that meat/carcasses are condemned.
This link is quite old, no telling how many years I've had it, so things may have changed. It's from the Food and Agricultural Organization or something like that. Anyway, it shows certain diseases, what is condemned and what's o.k.

If you have a sensitive tummy, be warned, I suppose. https://www.fao.org/4/t0756e/T0756E08.htm

We were going to raise the meat birds in a tractor but they would be all over the yard so, very exposed to my laying flock. I guess it's best if we don't do meat birds. Thanks for that link, it's very informative

 

[Wyorp Rock]

We were going to raise the meat birds in a tractor but they would be all over the yard so, very exposed to my laying flock. I guess it's best if we don't do meat birds. Thanks for that link, it's very informative

I see.

You could try it and see how it goes. Depending on how many you order, you could split the group up. Butcher some at Cornish Hen size and let the rest go further.

Generally, on average, iirc, symptoms of Marek's does not start to show up until around 12 weeks of age.
Processing before that, you may not even see anything?

And I really don't know if each form of Marek's may present at different ages? Maybe the others can chime in on that one.

I have not gone too deeply down the Marek's rabbit hole, the disease is quite complex to me, it presents in so many ways.

I'm not trying to sway you one way or another, just give you some things to think on, look into...

It's an investment to raise meat birds (or any!) so you do have to consider that, but I'd be inclined to raise a small number and see how it turns out.