A Fatty Liver Hemorrhagic Syndrome death

[Wyorp Rock]

I actually thought about doing one on her, but it freaked me out because rigor had set in..... if I'd waited to let that pass I should've done one. I will if it happens again, or at least see if anything looks wonky in her insides.

Completely understandable.

 

[micstrachan]

So sorry for your loss. “Good body condition” means there is fat, according to a UC Davis necropsy vet pathologist and my local avian vet. I lost a hen to the same thing last September.

Abdominal fat in chickens is no joke. It’s killing my flock and I’m frantically trying to undo the damage. Stopping treats completely along with enhancing the run has not helped. Now I’m at the point of rationing feed in hopes I can slim them down.

@Kiki has been preaching to us about treats for years. She's right. I honestly thought I was giving hardly any treats compared to what I hear other people giving and my flock is still fat (per two separate necropsies and a recent avian vet visit.)

There are other risk factors (genetics, laying status, moldy feed, hot climate) for fatty liver, but diet is the biggest risk factor.

I’ll get off my soap box now, but I thought I was heeding this warning pretty well and still ended up with a fat problem in my birds. It’s a heart wrenching lesson to learn.

 

[klbaker75]

@Wyorp Rock since she died from egg issues I only cut into her abdomen to get to the oviduct. So I only saw the intestines and oviduct and they looked ok. I didn’t go to the liver. She looked a bit rattled after they xrayed her and I could tell she just wanted to go home. I should have listened to her, the way she was looking at me. It’s haunting me. I just left her there. She was gone within five minutes of that when they tried to put the gas cone on her. She had a slight off smell when I opened her. Not sure if that is what raw chicken just smells like or if she had a bit of infection setting in. The egg was normal size and slender and completely vertical in the shell gland on xray.

I contacted a well known breeder of show quality barred rocks and he recommended fermenting oats. I think I’ll add buttermilk in as well since I have a production red having continual soft shelled eggs (I won't give this to the other girls bc of the fat content though). I messed her up by giving what I thought was a calcium supplement. It ended up having magnesium and potassium as well and I think damaged her shell gland. I’ve been at this for 22 years so very rookie mistake and I’m so mad at myself. I thought being off it for a month while she went through a moult would help reset things but it must have damaged her bc she just started back up and is back to the same issues. Anyway I am trying to figure out how to add the fermented oats and buttermilk oats plus sprouting whole oats and whole wheat to fit in with their current layer feed. It is 16% natures best. I’m wondering if I should add in boiled eggs to the mix as well. The last thing I want to do is cause a serious imbalance but I do feel their feed needs to be cut. This breeder said an inch of abdominal fat isn’t uncommon in hens on free choice feed. I’m at a loss. If you know of any way to do this without messing up protein and calcium they get from the layer I’d appreciate the insight.

@Pennys Mama my girl I lost also was named Penny. Her death has really shook me up physically and made me sick with stress. I only had her since June. Took her in when a friend abandoned her and her siblings. I’m so sorry for your loss. I give my girls milk thistle to try and counteract fat but this hen wouldn’t take it so I have no idea if it’s helping or not until another one starts with the same thing. One of her sisters stopped laying a week ago for no apparent reason other than I changed the nest up some so I may find out soon enough ugh.

 

[Fluffyflufffluff]

Hey all,

Well, I just had a pet chicken drop dead suddenly on Wed morning. The initial necropsy findings were death caused by fatal liver hemorrhage due to Fatty Liver Hemorrhagic Syndrome.

I'd never heard of it before the results. In the last 24 hours I've read every study I can find on the subject, so in addition to being incredibly sad, my brain also hurts, lol! I've also read through the forum posts on death due to FLHS and thought I'd add my necropsy results and chicken feeding in order to help anyone out there who is also baffled by a similar sudden chicken death. Maybe over time we can find a pattern since according to every study I've read so far, very little is actually known about the how/why/how to prevent it. The common thread is that estrogen is directly involved, it's most often seen in overweight hens, it's a major cause of death in caged laying hens and high-protien/ low-energy diets seem to do a good job of circumventing it.

Name: Myrtle
Breed: Olive egger (Healthy BCM female X Healthy Easter Egger male)
Origin: Hatching egg from a friend of mine's flock
Age: 14 Months
Date of death: 7/17/19
Laying habits: She began laying almost a year ago and was an excellent layer. She did not have a drop in laying prior to death.

Behavior/symptoms: Myrtle has had a weepy right eye since shortly after hatch. It was deemed a possible malfunctioning tear duct by the vet after undergoing rounds of anti-fungals, antimicrobials and antibiotics with no change. She had zero symptoms leading up to her death. She laid an egg the day before dying, ate and drank well, foraged voraciously, had normal stools (a couple of loose ones during peak heat that returned to normal when cooler), did not have any major weight fluctuations, had a good colored comb, alert and active. I also check on all the chickens just before I go to bed and Myrtle was sleeping normally the night prior to her death. The morning she died, I went to let the girls out of their run for the day to free-range as normal. Myrtle was laying on the ground in a corner of the run, pale comb and having a hard time breathing. I went to pick her up to see what was happening and she seized and died before I could even pick her up all the way.

Feed: My girls have free access to the yard all day starting around 9-ish am and ending just before sunset. I free-feed them a fresh blend of fermented organic Scratch & Peck Grower with Big Sky Organics Layer mash twice a day. Neither food has any corn or soy. The main protein source is fishmeal. They get barley sprouts/almost fodder several times per week, whatever greens/berries they can get their beaks on in the yard and I also give them cabbage, radish leaves, beet greens, kale, broccoli leaves, cauliflower leaves, brussels sprouts leaves to snack on from the garden. They have been known to eat tomato leaves whenever they droop down over the garden fence, but that is very rare and I shoo them away and trim the leaves. Additionally, I raise black soldier fly larvae and mealworms. I give 8 birds a handful of live grubs once every couple of weeks in the evenings. A couple of months ago I had several instances of them chowing down on avocados that had dropped from my neighbor's tree and fallen under leaf litter. I took them away as soon as I saw, but quite a bit had been consumed by the time I found them. Since then I've been much more vigilant about checking for them and have had no repeat incidences.
Body Condition: She had a good body condition. Not underweight and not obese.

The histopathology hasn't come back yet from the necropsy, but when it does I'll update. I'm a little lost as to how this happened. I keep wracking my brain with possible causes, so I can prevent it from happening again. I've been resistant to going with a pelletized feed because I don't like feeding such processed food, but I think I might start keeping pellets in a treadle feeder in the run and only feeding the fermented blend once a day, leaving it out for an hour, maximum. I wonder if mold could have developed on some of the feed over the course of the day. Or maybe it was the avocado. Or maybe it was the weepy eye, perhaps it was mycoplasma instead of a malfunctioning tear duct. GAH! Chickens!!!!!

That was so frightening... I hope that won't happen to my chickens. I will be more diligent on taking care of my chickens.

 

[Pennys Mama]

That was so frightening... I hope that won't happen to my chickens. I will be more diligent on taking care of my chickens.

I think we all try to be diligent with our flocks. At least that's the way it seems from my reading of forums, we're all here for knowledge and support I think. I wanna learn from everyone else so I can be better prepared when I face those same situations.

 

[Shadrach]

@Wyorp Rock since she died from egg issues I only cut into her abdomen to get to the oviduct. So I only saw the intestines and oviduct and they looked ok. I didn’t go to the liver. She looked a bit rattled after they xrayed her and I could tell she just wanted to go home. I should have listened to her, the way she was looking at me. It’s haunting me. I just left her there. She was gone within five minutes of that when they tried to put the gas cone on her. She had a slight off smell when I opened her. Not sure if that is what raw chicken just smells like or if she had a bit of infection setting in. The egg was normal size and slender and completely vertical in the shell gland on xray.

I contacted a well known breeder of show quality barred rocks and he recommended fermenting oats. I think I’ll add buttermilk in as well since I have a production red having continual soft shelled eggs (I won't give this to the other girls bc of the fat content though). I messed her up by giving what I thought was a calcium supplement. It ended up having magnesium and potassium as well and I think damaged her shell gland. I’ve been at this for 22 years so very rookie mistake and I’m so mad at myself. I thought being off it for a month while she went through a moult would help reset things but it must have damaged her bc she just started back up and is back to the same issues. Anyway I am trying to figure out how to add the fermented oats and buttermilk oats plus sprouting whole oats and whole wheat to fit in with their current layer feed. It is 16% natures best. I’m wondering if I should add in boiled eggs to the mix as well. The last thing I want to do is cause a serious imbalance but I do feel their feed needs to be cut. This breeder said an inch of abdominal fat isn’t uncommon in hens on free choice feed. I’m at a loss. If you know of any way to do this without messing up protein and calcium they get from the layer I’d appreciate the insight.

@Pennys Mama my girl I lost also was named Penny. Her death has really shook me up physically and made me sick with stress. I only had her since June. Took her in when a friend abandoned her and her siblings. I’m so sorry for your loss. I give my girls milk thistle to try and counteract fat but this hen wouldn’t take it so I have no idea if it’s helping or not until another one starts with the same thing. One of her sisters stopped laying a week ago for no apparent reason other than I changed the nest up some so I may find out soon enough ugh.

I've read all the posts and I don't understand why on earth you are considering giving buttermilk which is extremely high in fat and oats.
Buy a decent feed with at least 18% protein and preferably less than 1% fat.
There is nothing wrong with giving treats; it's what you give that matters.
Dump all the grains, meal worms etc and anything else you have fed and give her cooked low fat meat and fish as treats.

 

[Eggcessive]

Oatmeal, which contains a lot of beta glucans, is not good to feed by itself according to this article:
https://the-chicken-chick.com/the-shocking-effect-of-oatmeal/

 

[Wyorp Rock]

@Wyorp Rock since she died from egg issues I only cut into her abdomen to get to the oviduct. So I only saw the intestines and oviduct and they looked ok. I didn’t go to the liver. She looked a bit rattled after they xrayed her and I could tell she just wanted to go home. I should have listened to her, the way she was looking at me. It’s haunting me. I just left her there. She was gone within five minutes of that when they tried to put the gas cone on her. She had a slight off smell when I opened her. Not sure if that is what raw chicken just smells like or if she had a bit of infection setting in. The egg was normal size and slender and completely vertical in the shell gland on xray.

I contacted a well known breeder of show quality barred rocks and he recommended fermenting oats. I think I’ll add buttermilk in as well since I have a production red having continual soft shelled eggs (I won't give this to the other girls bc of the fat content though). I messed her up by giving what I thought was a calcium supplement. It ended up having magnesium and potassium as well and I think damaged her shell gland. I’ve been at this for 22 years so very rookie mistake and I’m so mad at myself. I thought being off it for a month while she went through a moult would help reset things but it must have damaged her bc she just started back up and is back to the same issues. Anyway I am trying to figure out how to add the fermented oats and buttermilk oats plus sprouting whole oats and whole wheat to fit in with their current layer feed. It is 16% natures best. I’m wondering if I should add in boiled eggs to the mix as well. The last thing I want to do is cause a serious imbalance but I do feel their feed needs to be cut. This breeder said an inch of abdominal fat isn’t uncommon in hens on free choice feed. I’m at a loss. If you know of any way to do this without messing up protein and calcium they get from the layer I’d appreciate the insight.

@Pennys Mama my girl I lost also was named Penny. Her death has really shook me up physically and made me sick with stress. I only had her since June. Took her in when a friend abandoned her and her siblings. I’m so sorry for your loss. I give my girls milk thistle to try and counteract fat but this hen wouldn’t take it so I have no idea if it’s helping or not until another one starts with the same thing. One of her sisters stopped laying a week ago for no apparent reason other than I changed the nest up some so I may find out soon enough ugh.

I am not a nutritionist, but giving them their normal balanced poultry feed is best.
Continuous soft shelled eggs - the hen may have a reproductive disorder, shell gland dysfunction....could be a number of things. I have given mine that had problems either TUMS for 2-3 days or 1/2 Caltrate. Extra calcium long term can cause damage.
I do agree, Buttermilk is high in fat if that's something you want to give, I would only give about 1 Tablespoon a couple of times a week. While dairy is fine and they can process a small amount, a lot may be upsetting to the system. Probiotics (purchased) may be another option for you too.

I'm sorry that you've had to deal with this.
If you did note an "off" smell during necropsy then it's hard to know what that would be, but she was not well. I have not found freshly butchered chicken to have any unpleasant odors.

 

[klbaker75]

I've read all the posts and I don't understand why on earth you are considering giving buttermilk which is extremely high in fat and oats.
Buy a decent feed with at least 18% protein and preferably less than 1% fat.
There is nothing wrong with giving treats; it's what you give that matters.
Dump all the grains, meal worms etc and anything else you have fed and give her cooked low fat meat and fish as treats.

I’m assuming you didn’t see the part where this would be for only one hen with calcium issues and I acknowledged the fat content in my post. There are kinder ways to respond to people.

 

[klbaker75]

I am not a nutritionist, but giving them their normal balanced poultry feed is best.
Continuous soft shelled eggs - the hen may have a reproductive disorder, shell gland dysfunction....could be a number of things. I have given mine that had problems either TUMS for 2-3 days or 1/2 Caltrate. Extra calcium long term can cause damage.
I do agree, Buttermilk is high in fat if that's something you want to give, I would only give about 1 Tablespoon a couple of times a week. While dairy is fine and they can process a small amount, a lot may be upsetting to the system. Probiotics (purchased) may be another option for you too.

I'm sorry that you've had to deal with this.
If you did note an "off" smell during necropsy then it's hard to know what that would be, but she was not well. I have not found freshly butchered chicken to have any unpleasant odors.

Thanks @Wyorp Rock as always. I appreciate your kindness. I will take your advice.