A Heritage of Perfection: Standard-bred Large Fowl

[gjensen]

I have had no trouble. Knock on wood. Maybe next year will be a problem.

For the last three or four years, I have been reading about hatching trouble and fertility problems. The first thing that is blamed is the feed, and then the weather. The last two things that is blamed is management or the birds.

I realize that these other things can be a factor. I am only pointing out an observation.

My opinion is that our birds are eating better than they ever have in history. They are a long ways from some whole corn, and the dung pile.

 

[MagicChicken]

I have had no trouble. Knock on wood. Maybe next year will be a problem.

For the last three or four years, I have been reading about hatching trouble and fertility problems. The first thing that is blamed is the feed, and then the weather. The last two things that is blamed is management or the birds.

I realize that these other things can be a factor. I am only pointing out an observation.

My opinion is that our birds are eating better than they ever have in history. They are a long ways from some whole corn, and the dung pile.

I can see blaming management or the birds if it's a relative newbie like me. On the other hand, when a lot of long-time breeders have similar, unusual problems while using the same management techniques and lines of birds they have been working with for years, there is probably a more widespread cause. Unless there is some new, widespread, unidentified pathogen affecting hatching rates, the most likely culprits would be changes in feed and/or weather. Weather has been weird all over, but it has been weird in different ways depending on geographic location. Commercially available feed has changed dramatically in recent years with the introduction of GMO grains and the trend toward all vegetable protein, and the change has been near universal. So even with the same management techniques, the quality of the feed has changed over time. Feed may not actually be the cause in this low-hatch-rate scenario, but it is the most probable culprit.

It's kind of like people and food today. We have a huge variety of food available, in quantities our ancestors would never have imagined. But the quality of the food has changed. We eat more than ever before, and as a nation we are not healthier for it.

Sarah

 

[LindaB220]

I can see blaming management or the birds if it's a relative newbie like me. On the other hand, when a lot of long-time breeders have similar, unusual problems while using the same management techniques and lines of birds they have been working with for years, there is probably a more widespread cause. Unless there is some new, widespread, unidentified pathogen affecting hatching rates, the most likely culprits would be changes in feed and/or weather. Weather has been weird all over, but it has been weird in different ways depending on geographic location. Commercially available feed has changed dramatically in recent years with the introduction of GMO grains and the trend toward all vegetable protein, and the change has been near universal. So even with the same management techniques, the quality of the feed has changed over time. Feed may not actually be the cause in this low-hatch-rate scenario, but it is the most probable culprit.

It's kind of like people and food today. We have a huge variety of food available, in quantities our ancestors would never have imagined. But the quality of the food has changed. We eat more than ever before, and as a nation we are not healthier for it.

Sarah

 

[gjensen]

I can see blaming management or the birds if it's a relative newbie like me. On the other hand, when a lot of long-time breeders have similar, unusual problems while using the same management techniques and lines of birds they have been working with for years, there is probably a more widespread cause. Unless there is some new, widespread, unidentified pathogen affecting hatching rates, the most likely culprits would be changes in feed and/or weather. Weather has been weird all over, but it has been weird in different ways depending on geographic location. Commercially available feed has changed dramatically in recent years with the introduction of GMO grains and the trend toward all vegetable protein, and the change has been near universal. So even with the same management techniques, the quality of the feed has changed over time. Feed may not actually be the cause in this low-hatch-rate scenario, but it is the most probable culprit.

It's kind of like people and food today. We have a huge variety of food available, in quantities our ancestors would never have imagined. But the quality of the food has changed. We eat more than ever before, and as a nation we are not healthier for it.

Sarah

Sarah, I considered these things myself. You might be right. I just have not had the same experience. Any fluctuations that I have seen, I have been to account for.

I have not been able avoid noticing that every year I see the same stories. I still think the feed is the least likely culprit. I think the most likely culprit is the birds. I mentioned management as the second, but it was hypothetical.

I think our health problems (people) is the choices that we make. Not what we have available to us. We certainly have an increase in health concerns related to diet. Otherwise I think we are healthier than we were 50 years ago. I am probably the least healthy of all of us, but it does not have anything to do with diet or choices.

I am no fan of GMOs either. I am ok when it is within species, but I hesitate when we trade genes among different species. I wonder about that. I have not seen any evidence of it affecting livestock fertility though.

I would consider jumping on the bandwagon if I was having fertility and hatchability problems also. I do not think that I am feeding anything better than anyone else.

 

[fowlman01]

Every year that I have been raising Standard bred poultry I have heard this same story. "This is a bad year for hatching"......"it is the feed, weather, moon, tides"....fill in the fault. Incubating/hatching is an art and some people are just not good at it. In waterfowl I do believe that feed is an important part of good hatches, but I don't see that in chickens. I feed the same thing to all my birds year around every year. I have enough birds to know that here.....hatchability seems to be by breed or strain of chickens and sometimes it's simply that the male is not breeding or has some fertility issues. In chickens .....Cornish seem to have issues with hatching every year, but most of that is mechanical issues because of the short legs on our Cornish bantams. We don't AI them. Feed does seem to play a part in waterfowl fertility though. Mostly in ducks and particularly bantam ducks with Call ducks of quality being the most difficult..

I have heard this every year for more years than I want to think about.

Walt

 

[snowbird]

Every year that I have been raising Standard bred poultry I have heard this same story. "This is a bad year for hatching"......"it is the feed, weather, moon, tides"....fill in the fault. Incubating/hatching is an art and some people are just not good at it. In waterfowl I do believe that feed is an important part of good hatches, but I don't see that in chickens. I feed the same thing to all my birds year around every year. I have enough birds to know that here.....hatchability seems to be by breed or strain of chickens and sometimes it's simply that the male is not breeding or has some fertility issues. In chickens .....Cornish seem to have issues with hatching every year, but most of that is mechanical issues because of the short legs on our Cornish bantams. We don't AI them. Feed does seem to play a part in waterfowl fertility though. Mostly in ducks and particularly bantam ducks with Call ducks of quality being the most difficult..

I have heard this every year for more years than I want to think about.

Walt

Walt, I agree with you 100% on hatching chicks or any other eggs is up to the person. For some reason I have been able to hatch more than I know what to do with. I believe the hatching method is most likely the cause of most eggs not getting a good result. Don

 

[neopolitancrazy]

With this as my first season to store/incubate/hatch eggs, I agree that I was likely the source of most of my hatchability problems. However, when I first started looking into recommended breeder rations, my feed stated it contained 0.3% methionine, and 0.45% were recommended for meat-type breeder hens. By the end of my hatching season, the local mill had changed my former feed to 0.2% methionine. I found a different feedstore, this one keeps Purina Gamebird Startena in stock, with 0.5% methionine. I produced 16% live, healthy chicks. My recent broody hen produced 69.6%. Hurray for Mother Nature!
Angela

 

[Vamvakas]

Every year that I have been raising Standard bred poultry I have heard this same story. "This is a bad year for hatching"......"it is the feed, weather, moon, tides"....fill in the fault. Incubating/hatching is an art and some people are just not good at it. In waterfowl I do believe that feed is an important part of good hatches, but I don't see that in chickens. I feed the same thing to all my birds year around every year. I have enough birds to know that here.....hatchability seems to be by breed or strain of chickens and sometimes it's simply that the male is not breeding or has some fertility issues. In chickens .....Cornish seem to have issues with hatching every year, but most of that is mechanical issues because of the short legs on our Cornish bantams. We don't AI them. Feed does seem to play a part in waterfowl fertility though. Mostly in ducks and particularly bantam ducks with Call ducks of quality being the most difficult..

I have heard this every year for more years than I want to think about.

Waltr

What if you not using those machines and using broody hens in my case (the most natural and best results with these hens)? Had such a good hatch last year, but this year forget it I replaced eggs under the hens and I'm surprised they haven't booked it now for being broody for so long. I don't beilive in incubators as my family is old school Europeans and beilive in broody hens. But there is something wrong this year. Yes, you may say "people don't know what there doing" but I learned to old ropes for breeding/hatching. Sir, your not in no position to jump to conclusion and give use orders.

 

[fowlman01]

What if you not using those machines and using broody hens in my case (the most natural and best results with these hens)? Had such a good hatch last year, but this year forget it I replaced eggs under the hens and I'm surprised they haven't booked it now for being broody for so long. I don't beilive in incubators as my family is old school Europeans and beilive in broody hens. But there is something wrong this year. Yes, you may say "people don't know what there doing" but I learned to old ropes for breeding/hatching. Sir, your not in no position to jump to conclusion and give use orders.

Well.....I didn't jump to a conclusion and I didn't give anyone orders, nor did I say that no one knew what they were doing. You quoted my post.....go back and read it again. I use broody hens too, but I was relating what I have heard for the last 50 years....every year is a bad hatching year.......I have heard that for that long. Actually I am in a position to give my opinion and I can tell the truth as I have been doing this longer than you have been alive. Read my posts next time.

Walt

 

[gjensen]

What if you not using those machines and using broody hens in my case (the most natural and best results with these hens)? Had such a good hatch last year, but this year forget it I replaced eggs under the hens and I'm surprised they haven't booked it now for being broody for so long. I don't beilive in incubators as my family is old school Europeans and beilive in broody hens. But there is something wrong this year. Yes, you may say "people don't know what there doing" but I learned to old ropes for breeding/hatching. Sir, your not in no position to jump to conclusion and give use orders.

No body said that someone did not know what they are doing. The conversation was about these things being talked about every year.