A Heritage of Perfection: Standard-bred Large Fowl

[LeslieDJoyce]

a few Delaware Bantam eggs compared to a lf egg...two bantam eggs equal a large lf egg.


Nice chesty birds will feed two a nice meal.

Seriously, your Delaware bantams are nicer than most people's Delawares. Good work.

 

[Sydney Acres]

NanaKat, I agree with Leslie, your birds are fabulous. Do you slaughter and eat your cull cockerels? If so, at what age do you typically slaughter them, and how much do they weigh after they're dressed out?

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Good morning, JM! How are you, my friend? Would you expound on this statement, please?

"So few successfully slalom the minefield of emotional baggage that would lead to the learning that, itself, leads to strong breeding."

I think I understand, but to what "emotional baggage" are you referring?

My mentors were/are some of the toughest, most honest, most brutally honest folks I know. It was very difficult at first. It may take awhile to get over taking such things personally and believe your mentor when she/he says, "now, don't take this personally". Yeah right.

All of Fred's points:

There so frequently seem to be excuses that impede progress, which in one form or another usually seem to reduce to a surrendering, or refusal to develop, the capacity to cull or make a decision.

1) The refusal to part with one's babies, i.e. the first chickens one procured, very frequently not standard-bred, whose retention slows progress. The attitude seems to be, "Oh well, but I like them, so they're good enough for me." All fine, of course, but this will not a breeder make.

2) "I just can't do that," i.e. cull a chicken. "Can you come cull my chickens?" "No, if one can't take responsibility for one's own culling, one will never become a breeder."

3) The refusal to select a breed and variety appropriate to one's infrastructure or to limit the number of breeds and varieties to the capacity of one's infrastructure, budget, and time availability.

4) The refusal to work with a breed and/or variety whose requirements are in tune with one's skill-set. Ergo, the would-be breeder burns out trying to work with a breed that's going to take years and years without realizing that he or she doesn't actually possess that much staying power.

5) More subtle, yet very destructive, is the inability to hear beyond what one wants to hear. A question is asked at a show, but the response does not coddle the presuppositions of the questioner, so they refuse the lesson. Or someone who asks and then responds "I know, I know, I know. This is what I think. This is how I do it." Why on earth ask the question if it's really just an excuse to discuss what one thinks one already knows?

 

[bramblefir]

On the subject of bantams: what is the best way to go about breeding LF down to bantam size?

 

[Fred's Hens]

Making great bantams is not one lick easier than making great LF. Why take the 8 years it would take to just re-invent the wheel? Few breeders are committed enough to stay with ANY breed more than just a few years. It's the curse of the hobby of breeding fowl. They come, they go.

So? In short? Go find a starter group of bantams, the very, very best you can get ahold of and roll up your sleeves and get to work. 90% of them still need a ton of work. My $.02



Yup, I took my own advice.

 

[bramblefir]

Making great bantams is not one lick easier than making great LF. Why take the 8 years it would take to just re-invent the wheel? Few breeders are committed enough to stay with ANY breed more than just a few years. It's the curse of the hobby of breeding fowl. They come, they go.

So? In short? Go find a starter group of bantams, the very, very best you can get ahold of and roll up your sleeves and get to work. 90% of them still need a ton of work. My $.02



Yup, I took my own advice.

It was mostly curiosity that prompted the question. I'll primarily be working with waterfowl starting this year, but I'm getting some bantams for incubation purposes. Although I'll leave the goose eggs to my big hens and the Brinsea.

 

[cscarney]

Thank you for this thread! I stayed up until 2 AM to finish it, and the information people have shared here will make me a better SOP breeder with my Langshans.

I've been involved with poultry (and Shetland sheep) for over a decade as a breeder, but have only gotten serious about breeding quality birds in the last few, and then it took a while to find the quality I wanted to work with. Personally, I hate culling, though it has to be done and it takes just as much to feed a crappy bird as to feed a good one.

I do have a few questions:

1: I don't know as much as I would like about the breeds I'm working with--Langshans, bantam Phoenix (silver and gold duckwings, fawn duckwings, dominant white--mostly just for fun to see if I can get a good fawn strain going and they're excellent broodies), and Brabanters (they're from Ideal, so I know I'll be culling out most of them). Can anyone recommend reading material/reference sources? I do have the APA abd ABA SOP's, and refer to it regularly for the Langshans ("height of bird should come from depth of breast, not stiltiness of leg" is my mantra this season) and Phoenix. The Brabanters are more problematic as they are not in the Standard....

2: I do plan to go to Ohio National this year with some decent (I hope) show birds. I'd like to get feedback on the birds, but more importantly learn from other breeders about how to become better. Any tips to making the most of that weekend?

3: Anything else you can think of to make me a better breeder?? I'm committed to my Langshans for the long haul (agree totally with the need for dedicated breeders to keep breeds going), have no plans to phase out the Phoenix anytime soon, and we'll see how the Brabanters do....

Thanks in advance!

 

[Fred's Hens]

cscarney

1. Join the breed club(s) of the birds you are most involved with.

2. Being a breeder requires having a mentor, someone to help you and show you the ropes.

3. Finally, of course, own, study and constantly refer to the standard for your breed. Not just the photos, but the written word. The APA has just released a newly minted 44th edition. $59 which includes postage to your door. These can only be purchased on APA website, not available in stores anyhwere.

4. Yes, going to the shows, medium to large, is a great experience and most folks love to talk about their birds. Great place to see birds and listen to lots of chicken talk.

 

[cscarney]

Thank you! Yes, I plan to join the breed clubs when I have the funds (I know it's not expensive--funds are always short in the spring with property taxes, insurance payments and such--I should be in better shape in a month or so) along with the APA/ABA.....

I would like to find mentors--was very lucky when I got into Shetlands to have two wonderful breeders who answered all my silly sheep questions. Looking for the same for the birds--with luck maybe I'll find some people at OH Nat'l.

My SOP's are pretty well loved (and annotated) and it's probably time to get new ones (funds permitting). I'm the same way with my USA Swimming rulebook--lots of notes scrawled on the pages as I learn exactly what the terminology means. The written word is what I go with but pictures and feedback help me to understand if my interpretation of the written word is correct (which is why I need the mentors!).

The only problem with going to shows is developing the willpower to keep things from following me home.....I always see way too many birds I want to work with! HOWEVER I know that if I jump from breed to breed (or even variety to variety within a breed) I'll never master the intricacies needed to consistently produce good birds. Not to mention the whole reality of limited time, money, and infrastructure....

What about judging clinics if there are such things? The reason I ask is because USAS runs officiating clinics/rules interpretation clinics several times a year that explain the ins and outs of the rulebook for coaches like me--I find that explanation of how the rules actually work and what they look like in real life to be hugely helpful. I know there are plenty of idiosyncrasies that are breed specific, but even things like a general discussion of DQ's/faults/defects with birds in hand would make a difference. Heck, any bit of knowledge I can glean makes a difference at this point!

I've just started to scratch the surface of what's available on the forums here (working my way through the genetics discussion right now). Can't believe this resource has been here for years and I missed it. Any particular threads I should concentrate on to start?

Catherine

 

[Fred's Hens]

One doesn't need to buy every edition of the Standard when they're published. Two reasons to do so? If your variety is newly accepted or if you just wish to collect them and thereby support the APA.

My breeds are so old that nothing has changed for forever. LOL

One word of caution. 90% of what really goes on in the breeder world is not discussed on forums. Shoot, 90% of the top breeders are not here and many don't do social media either. It's kind of a funny aspect of this hobby. It's mostly done face to face or on the phone in somewhat long conversations. One of the primary purpose of going to the exhibitions, whether to show or just hang, is to engage in the conversations. The media doesn't lend itself to what REALLY needs to be discussed. Just the way it is.

Welcome to this endlessly fascinating hobby.