A Little Rifle Help, Please (Purchased Gun w/ PICS!!! Pg 12)

[Jaybr]

Quote:
Obviously the numbers vary a good bit with different loads, I was just giving a general idea for popular rounds in calibers that where talked about in this thread.

I pulled the rimfire figures on CCI maxi-mags from CCI's website and the rest came from Federal using JHP ammo in popular bullet weights.

 

[dsmvalley]

i definitely 2nd the 17 HMR for the inital purpose u proposed...............there is one downside.........you will wanna shoot it often. lottsa fun compared to the ole .22............ruger 10/22 in .22 mag...........easy to convert to 17 hmr............better buy alot of shells tho, cuz the kids and the wife will be wantin in on the fun..........possums and coons are dun for............

 

[Oblio13]

Quote:
Any critter, humans included, will live for 10-15 seconds even with no heart and lungs. Running a few yards is normal no matter what caliber is used. It simply takes that long to bleed out.

An instant kill will require a hit in the upper central nervous system, i.e. the brain or upper spine.

 

[nautical_bouy]

I don't think he want's to spend in the 400 dollar range for a plinker, 10/22 mag,,and then spend a few bills more for a more expensive and less effective conversion.

The .17HMR does not do what the .22 Mag can,
a 17 grain bullet has more wind drift and loses very quickly what little it starts with compaired to double or more the weight of the .22 bullet. Also there are not many ammo choices for the 17.
I had a .17 and after 150 rounds I knew it was not equal to my .22 mag
@ 50 yards my $150 Marlin 25M shoots 1/4'' groups,, 100, is less than 1' MOA,, 10 MPH crosswinds do not require much attention.
The 17 I had was allmost as accurate, I give credit where it is due, however it seemed allmost any wind was a factor and even a thermal rising off the hill next to my range on a hot day caused the tiny bullet to move off it's intended course, if even slightly, it is more than the .22 mag.

I do admit when I form an opinion I will argue it forever, my reason is I spend a LOT of time and research before I form that opinion, along with my opinion on this subject I have spent a lot of money and time forming it.

Here in SW PA, it's a lot of hills,, shots over 200 yards are not the norm, and Bluey is shooting a coon in his back yard, I think it is absurd to even consider a western barrel burner that cost around 2 bucks a shot like a 22-250, or the old CCCP 7.62x54, and the BTW it is a .308 Winchester or a 7.62 NATO.

I live in the area, I have killed black bear, elk, and lots of deer with a .270 Winchester, small game with an old Win. model 12, 12 ga,,, and varmits and pest with a .22 WRM.

In Africa, they killed elephants with spears, then muzzleloaders, and even a .22 Mag.

Bluey is trying to quickly kill a coon in the back yard, the .22 Mag will do a great job @ 10 bucks for 50 rounds, not like the others that reccomended the 20 for 20 stuff.

This is the best advive a guy that shot on three leagues, 1500+ rounds a week with combat pistol and two rifle clubs, can offer, who never had a "race gun", mine were a Hi-Power, 686 SW, and Sig 220, a few drop in parts, nothing major, the rifle is a little diffrent, that ate some cash, but I changed stocks and went from hunting to match.

I never made top of the pack, I was only lower grade, but I did it with a pistol I could tuck in my belt for personal defense or a rifle I changed stocks on and climbed the Rocky,Wasatch ,and PA hills with.

I know I got off topic a bit, I'm trying to say I've done this a little bit and don't fall for the latest and greatest calibers, there is a lot of time and money invested in my opinion and I know what works for me in this area.

Here are a few figures for the 17 and 22 mag. Good luck in your choice.

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ballistics/22_win_mag.html

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ballistics/17_hmr.html

 

[Oblio13]

Quote:
The .308 Winchester and 7.62 x 51 NATO are interchangeable. The 7.62 x 54 Russian is a different critter, not interchangeable.

Perhaps too much detail for this forum, but don't want someone to try to chamber and fire the wrong ammo, it could be ugly.

 

[nautical_bouy]

I should have been more detailed, the .308 comment was suppost to be educational,, the caliber was a .308 Winchester, then adopted by NATO as a European metric,,, the 7.62 NATO,, not a .308 NATO,, the 7.62x54 is a much lower power round and I'm pretty sure you cannot chamber one into the other due to rim size, case length,,, 308 is longer,,, and diameter is diffrent,,, it is no where near like having a 25-06, .270 Win or a .280 Rem that will fit in a 30-06. Or having a 30-06 fit in a .35 Whelen,,, like a .243 or 7mm-08 fitting in a .308,,,, the 7.62x 54 or 39 Russian do not share case similarities like many US calibers.

I do not believe a US caliber rifle will grab the rim and head space to allow the firing pin to contact the primer, let alone the other way around. A .308 is too long to even let the bolt close and lock up to release the pin on a (Mosigan Nagant),,SP????

On a sloppy bolt you still are dealing with thousants, to have the extractor grab the rim,, the chamber to accept, the neck angle to accept,rim on a belted case or neck to accept for headspacing, bolt to lock up and release the firing pin so the firing pin will light the fire, not push the case away.

There are so many factors that are less than a human hair, cross chambering an Eastern Bloc round in an American rifle is not easy,,, nothing is close to the same,,,,, now here in the US,,, if it's opening day of deer season, and I grab my buddys .280 REM,,, and I have my .270 WIN. ammo, and that 12 point is close,,, I'll make the shot,,, if he sees it,,, he can't chamber his .280 or -06 in my .270

 

[nautical_bouy]

Hey Bluey,,, this is way off track for the discussion,,, the point is, I'll lend you my 22 mag, I trust you, worst I losse is 300 bucks and bad mouth you here, then you sign in with a diffrent name,,,,Is no biggy,,, I went to far for here and can go for 3 pages with physics, kinetics and why I believe and what I have personally seen and done.

I should have PM'ed you,, oh well I took the bait for the BS and had to think a few minutes.
Lets shoot

 

[Davaroo]

I should have been more detailed, the .308 comment was suppost to be educational,, the caliber was a .308 Winchester, then adopted by NATO as a European metric,,, the 7.62 NATO,, not a .308 NATO,, the 7.62x54 is a much lower power round and I'm pretty sure you cannot chamber one into the other due to rim size, case length,,, 308 is longer,,, and diameter is diffrent,,
OFF TOPIC
The 7.62 NATO was developed by the US Army in their T-65 program during the 1950's as a replacement for the 30-06. They wanted similar power to the 30-06, in a smaller action. It was modeled after the .300 Savage. It was the first time a military round had been so developed from a civilian cartridge, I believe.
Once adopted by the US military (a sure road to success) it was released by Winchester as the .308 WIN. It went on to become one of the most successful cartridges of all time. I prefer it for deer hunting.
In time, it was adopted by the NATO alliance as their standard rifle cartridge. Oddly, it fell out of US usage pretty quick, with only the M-14 using it in US service. By 1967, we had gone to the 5.56 x 51, or .223 WIN.

In NATO guise, the 7.62 NATO is reduced in power:
54K CUP 308 WIN
46-48K CUP 7.62 NATO
...due to the many different rifles, both new and old it is used in. It has essentially reverted back to the .300 Savage except it is a tenth of an inch or so longer.
The 7.62 x 54R, or the Russian .30 cal, is from the same pre-war WWII period [1891] as the 30-06. It is roughly equivalent in power to the .30-'06. It is a RIMMED cartridge, one of the few still around, so should not chamber in any 30-06, which headspaces on the shoulder of the cartridge case.
I say should not - it may, I dont know. They are close.
Always know what you are chambering and firing in your rifles. I'd humbly suggest you let your game walk before you chamber the wrong round in any rifle.

Any of these are WAAAAAY more powerful than is needed for raccoons; more than is needed for whitetail deer, even.
The fact that our OP lives in a suburban area ( a fact only lately learned ) should veer our discussion away from rifles altogether. We should be discussing traps and .38 Spl revolvers for dispatch, not high powered rifles.

 

[Jaybr]

Another thing to consider: You said coons are what you have to deal with, but chances are you will have fox, bobcat, opposum, or coyotes that will show up at some point. I wouldn't be looking for a rifle to just deal with coons, I'd want something to deal with all of the above.

Fox and opposum are close to the same size as coons, so any rifle choice will have similar results on them. don't know about PA, but around here bobcats can get up to 35-40 lbs, and coyotes up around 60 lbs. Much bigger than any coon I've ever seen. The same rifle that drops a coon in it's tracks may not drop a 60 lb coyote the same. Again, your 22 will kill them but not as quick, and you seem to want them to drop where you shoot them.

I like a 22 mag and have one we use for predator hunting, it's killed foxes and coons very reliably and they never went more than a few feet. My son shot a coyote with it this year and couldn't find it.

He is a good shot and he did hit it, but can't swear it was a great shot as I wasn't there and it was dark. after that he started carrying my .204.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone about which rifle caliber is best, just giving my opinion based on the given criteria.

Shots less than 50 yds
Coons or similar sized pest.
Must drop in its tracks.

 

[spiderman]

Personally my favorite gun was the one I got when I was 9. A single shot .243 with a scope. I've shot two deer with it, and I have no doubt it could take down everything else you have problems with.