a moral dilemma

[Shadrach]

So...... I give you a scenario and tell me which one you think is right and which one is wrong.

SCENARIO : OK. I'm in the battlefield and one of my guys has just got shot up with a sub-machine gun and riddled with about 40 holes in him. It's clear as day that he will perish soon unless the hand of god reaches down upon him. Do you say........

Response #1 - "Hey, buddy.... you're looking worse than a block of Swiss Cheese there and about to die soon, no way anyone can help you out, you're good as dead. Can I have your pair of boots since we're the same size"?

OR

Response #2 - "Hey, man..... just hold on, you're alright everything will be alright. Remember that day at bootcamp and that drill instructor was being an azz to me, and later that day we snuck in his room and filled his boots full of shit?! That was funny wasn't it?" And that time I collapsed in our 20 mile hike and you had to pull me off the ground and yelled into my ears to keep moving and not give up? Well, now it's your turn..... keep holding on, don't you give up on me!" (Even though you know he's good as dead but want to comfort him in his last dying moment).
Oh that ones easy. Lying to a someone who is dying doesn't give you much scope for making amends at some later date. You'll have to live with that lie until you die.
There is always the option of saying nothing. I think that's the option I'll be taking from now on in this thread.

TELL ME!!!! HUH?? Which is the wrong or right one?!!

Oh, that one is easy.
Don't lie to a dying man because you will never be able to make amends and you'll have to live with that lie until you die.
There is always the option of saying nothing; an option I will be taking on this thread in the future.

 

[HeartsDelight]

This is a fascinating thread! Everyone's answer is right for them and that's just how it should be, right? This could be a sociology paper....

But, I have a chicken-related question about the whole situation -- OP, are your birds good foragers? I'm new to chickens and not familiar with all of your breeds, but if your stock isn't cut out for what your neighbor wants, that would seem to be a reasonable basis to decline that avoids any philosophical questions.

THIS is a great question! If your breeds are not ones that take well with free ranging, you can give him an honest answer of they aren't a good bird for his needs.

If they are a particularly sturdy flock that can tend themselves, honestly, I'd share them. This is a cultural difference more than a moral one. He has apparently always seen chickens as a "fend for themselves" animal, which many people do. If your birds would do well, you would be doing a huge kindness to him to share that birds with that trait.

Another thing you could suggest is he would get a lot more EGGS much more easily if he at least put out a doghouse with some straw for them, or stacked some 5 gallon buckets to use as a lay box all in one place, and a good place to retreat to to brood. Framing it to him in a way that benefits him--more quality protein with minimal effort--is probably the best chance to change his opinion.

 

[elaineinspain]

This is a fascinating thread! Everyone's answer is right for them and that's just how it should be, right? This could be a sociology paper....

But, I have a chicken-related question about the whole situation -- OP, are your birds good foragers? I'm new to chickens and not familiar with all of your breeds, but if your stock isn't cut out for what your neighbor wants, that would seem to be a reasonable basis to decline that avoids any philosophical questions.

Are my birds good foragers? The cochins and orpingtons are not. The pedresas and pita pintas and the mixed race ones are. Also they are all quite heavy birds so can't really fly very far or fast when scared. This is also a reason why I'm concerned for their safety if I deliver them into the hands of an owner who prefers complete free ranging without any form of protection.

 

[elaineinspain]

Best bet is to simply tell your neighbor that you aren't comfortable sharing hatching eggs. Give him the best reason - not a trumped-up excuse, a real reason - you can live with. Personally, I'd tell him - flat out - that "I'm a bit silly over my chickens. To me, they are more pets than livestock." If you shrug it off as a fault of your own, instead of the fault of his chicken-keeping practices, he may just share a chuckle with you and accept your off-kilter (in his eyes, anyway) logic. You could even offer to help him find chicks - and be sure to follow through on the offer.

@Shadrach is right on a very important point. You don't want the worry of keeping a judgmental secret for what could be a very long time - time that you will spend constantly worrying about being found out. It's sure to taint your "neighborly" relationship. And if it's discovered, "tainted" may not be a strong enough description.

Whatever you decide, you're the one who has to live next door to this man. There is no such thing as "The Perfect Neighbor." Everyone has their own idiosyncrasies. If this is the worst issue you have with an otherwise good neighbor, it's worth handling in a way that keeps you both friendly - and not covering up deceptions for years to come.

Good Luck!

@MROO I have made the decision. I am going down the lane to speak with him now. There is an old dilapidated shack on his land. I have some old wood pallets and left over hardware cloth. I will offer to help him make this shack into a secure shelter so the birds will have somewhere to roost at night. I won't be able to do this work on my own, I'm relying on his help. If he agrees to my suggestion and helps me to make his shack secure I'll give him the eggs. If however for whatever reason he doesn't help me with the renovations, I'll tell him about me seeing chickens more as pets than livestock, and help him find other fertilised eggs. I know another neighbour on our lane also has fertilised eggs, as his birds hatch out chicks every year. His birds are the typical small chickens that are seen foraging on farmland all over this area in Spain. They are very flighty and quick and they seem to be exceptional foragers. I'm sure eggs from these birds would be more suitable for him.
I believe I could live with this decision.

I would like to thank everyone so much for your input. It was a very lively thread with many differing, and very interesting opinions. It has widened my worldview, and I am very appreciative, especially to @Shadrach, and @Stiletto , (And @Shamo Hybrid - for your wonderful humour! I still get a chuckle out of your post when I think of it.)

 

[aart]

Interesting discussion by those with some awareness.
It's a sticky situation for sure.

I know another neighbour on our lane also has fertilised eggs, as his birds hatch out chicks every year. His birds are the typical small chickens that are seen foraging on farmland all over this area in Spain. They are very flighty and quick and they seem to be exceptional foragers. I'm sure eggs from these birds would be more suitable for him.
I believe I could live with this decision.

This ^^^ seems the best solution.
Not sure having him build a coop would help protect the birds from predation if he's not there to lock them up every night....and I doubt he'd go for it anyway except maybe to humor you.

Best of cLuck!!

 

[mixedUPturk]

@MROO I have made the decision. I am going down the lane to speak with him now. There is an old dilapidated shack on his land. I have some old wood pallets and left over hardware cloth. I will offer to help him make this shack into a secure shelter so the birds will have somewhere to roost at night. I won't be able to do this work on my own, I'm relying on his help. If he agrees to my suggestion and helps me to make his shack secure I'll give him the eggs. If however for whatever reason he doesn't help me with the renovations, I'll tell him about me seeing chickens more as pets than livestock, and help him find other fertilised eggs. I know another neighbour on our lane also has fertilised eggs, as his birds hatch out chicks every year. His birds are the typical small chickens that are seen foraging on farmland all over this area in Spain. They are very flighty and quick and they seem to be exceptional foragers. I'm sure eggs from these birds would be more suitable for him.
I believe I could live with this decision.

I would like to thank everyone so much for your input. It was a very lively thread with many differing, and very interesting opinions. It has widened my worldview, and I am very appreciative, especially to @Shadrach, and @Stiletto , (And @Shamo Hybrid - for your wonderful humour! I still get a chuckle out of your post when I think of it.)

im a bit of a late comer but i think youve made a wonderful decision, please let us know how its turned out!

 

[Fields Mountain Farm]

@MROO I have made the decision. I am going down the lane to speak with him now. There is an old dilapidated shack on his land. I have some old wood pallets and left over hardware cloth. I will offer to help him make this shack into a secure shelter so the birds will have somewhere to roost at night. I won't be able to do this work on my own, I'm relying on his help. If he agrees to my suggestion and helps me to make his shack secure I'll give him the eggs. If however for whatever reason he doesn't help me with the renovations, I'll tell him about me seeing chickens more as pets than livestock, and help him find other fertilised eggs. I know another neighbour on our lane also has fertilised eggs, as his birds hatch out chicks every year. His birds are the typical small chickens that are seen foraging on farmland all over this area in Spain. They are very flighty and quick and they seem to be exceptional foragers. I'm sure eggs from these birds would be more suitable for him.
I believe I could live with this decision.

I would like to thank everyone so much for your input. It was a very lively thread with many differing, and very interesting opinions. It has widened my worldview, and I am very appreciative, especially to @Shadrach, and @Stiletto , (And @Shamo Hybrid - for your wonderful humour! I still get a chuckle out of your post when I think of it.)

Ive been following along here.. and Id just like to say.. I think this is a great way to handle the situation. Best of luck and I hope it all goes well for you both.

 

[Henry&Friends]

@MROO I have made the decision. I am going down the lane to speak with him now. There is an old dilapidated shack on his land. I have some old wood pallets and left over hardware cloth. I will offer to help him make this shack into a secure shelter so the birds will have somewhere to roost at night. I won't be able to do this work on my own, I'm relying on his help. If he agrees to my suggestion and helps me to make his shack secure I'll give him the eggs. If however for whatever reason he doesn't help me with the renovations, I'll tell him about me seeing chickens more as pets than livestock, and help him find other fertilised eggs. I know another neighbour on our lane also has fertilised eggs, as his birds hatch out chicks every year. His birds are the typical small chickens that are seen foraging on farmland all over this area in Spain. They are very flighty and quick and they seem to be exceptional foragers. I'm sure eggs from these birds would be more suitable for him.
I believe I could live with this decision.

I would like to thank everyone so much for your input. It was a very lively thread with many differing, and very interesting opinions. It has widened my worldview, and I am very appreciative, especially to @Shadrach, and @Stiletto , (And @Shamo Hybrid - for your wonderful humour! I still get a chuckle out of your post when I think of it.)

 

[Lelanae]

I think you answered your own question when you phrased it as a "moral dilemma". You don't morally feel comfortable giving chickens to a person who won't care for them as you would. That IS your decision--your husband disagrees with you, but if you think about it--you already made a decision and if you tried to please your husband and neighbor you would probably regret going against your own feelings.

 

[Lelanae]

Ive been following along here.. and Id just like to say.. I think this is a great way to handle the situation. Best of luck and I hope it all goes well for you both.

Let us all know what he says!