A question for Candadians and UK folks and the Universal Healthcare

[PineappleMama]

Quote:
Exactly what I mean ... for folks like that, that only need coverage in case of catastrophe... why can't these companies come up with a plan that works like auto and home owners... so you're covered if a tornado (cancer) hits but you take care of the light bulbs (flu shots)?

And since it's only covering the stuff that is rare (by comparison to the common cold) then premiums should be less... you know, the longshot horse with 80-1 odds... not likely to need it, but if you do hit the catastrophe longshot then it's paid... instead everyone's betting on the favorite at 5:7 odds, insurance pays for little but takes a lot in order to pay for all those nitpicky things... give me the longshot plan, reasonably priced flood insurance if you will (ties in with the cliche about when it rains... ) and I'll buy it... I would find a way to afford it.

I don't see why companies that offer auto, home, life and health insurance haven't come up with this yet... they run the other areas this way... they know the math, make a bundle... why haven't they tried this sort of thing before? Or has someone?

OR if the government came up with one that did that, and maybe included one annual exam with the works (prostate, breast, any tests you need run that you can't afford otherwise and then your PCP can take it from there with the results)... I could go for that... it'd get everyone checked every year, catch cancer, heart problems, etc... would cover the life destroying stuff... and because it isn't covering every time Bubbu needs stitches or Barbie breaks a nail it shouldn't be too outrageously expensive... and since everyone can have it save that money/time spent searching for the frauds... I donno if that's possible, but seems like that'd be a heck of a lot better than what they came up with.

How can our government order us to purchase ANY company's product? And if you don't you are fined. Product may or may not get you ANYTHING, and you may not be able to afford the product... but it doesn't matter, you buy it or else. Didn't even try to fix the system, it's the same old stuff that the companies have been doing for decades... but now by law we're all required to put up with it.

I realize that insurance companies employ a lot of people... salespeople, claims processors, lawyers, etc etc... but giving them business, keeping a business open that you KNOW is hurting citizens just because you don't want to T off the hand that feeds you or don't want to make those people lose their jobs is wrong. *sigh* Great big convoluted mess... that's what it is.

 

[Dunkopf]

They do have those policies. They are called catastrophic policies. If you are young and in perfect health with no hereditary type health issues in your family the premiums aren't too bad. Deductibles are 5-20k or so depending on where you want your premium to be.

It still bypasses the basic humanity issue though.

 

[PineappleMama]

Well yeah... but for someone who wants peace of mind, don't have to fear financial ruin if tornado strikes... then they can CHOOSE to have this sort of thing...

But, seems like without some kind of annual screening that you're just begging to miss a WHOLE lot of things that could have been easier... not easy, but you know... if you're screened than you catch the cancer early, get treatment, move on... if you don't get that check up then when you finally go to the doc it's already spread and is a LOT worse... so while I like the emergency insurance idea it doesn't seem like it'd be too smart unless you're getting checked regularly... maybe that's why they don't really offer them?... but why not just add in one checkup and then that's that? Or the Gov't do that? There's the snag I think... if you ONLY have tornado you might blow off checkups until it becomes a tornado... but if you add in the checkups and tests and whatnot then it wouldn't be as cheap... hmmm.

Clearly leaving people's health totally in their hands hasn't been all that great... but again, that's an American thing... we're ALL about individual freedom, individuals' rights... don't tread on me... give me liberty or give me death... you notice the pattern... we don't like being told what to do, when to do it... well, I guess military folks are okay with orders, but us regular folk don't cotton to it at all.

I honestly am liking the sound of UK's system... after seeing the actual math, how it would apply to our income, I can wrap my head around it... of course they admit it wasn't always that way... there were bugs, but they put in the effort to work them out and now they've got what looks to me like a great system... and for a reasonable (WAY more reasonable that quotes AND service around here) price.

 

[thaiturkey]

Quote:
Exactly what I mean ... for folks like that, that only need coverage in case of catastrophe... why can't these companies come up with a plan that works like auto and home owners... so you're covered if a tornado (cancer) hits but you take care of the light bulbs (flu shots)?

And since it's only covering the stuff that is rare (by comparison to the common cold) then premiums should be less... you know, the longshot horse with 80-1 odds... not likely to need it, but if you do hit the catastrophe longshot then it's paid... instead everyone's betting on the favorite at 5:7 odds, insurance pays for little but takes a lot in order to pay for all those nitpicky things... give me the longshot plan, reasonably priced flood insurance if you will (ties in with the cliche about when it rains... ) and I'll buy it... I would find a way to afford it.

I don't see why companies that offer auto, home, life and health insurance haven't come up with this yet... they run the other areas this way... they know the math, make a bundle... why haven't they tried this sort of thing before? Or has someone?

OR if the government came up with one that did that, and maybe included one annual exam with the works (prostate, breast, any tests you need run that you can't afford otherwise and then your PCP can take it from there with the results)... I could go for that... it'd get everyone checked every year, catch cancer, heart problems, etc... would cover the life destroying stuff... and because it isn't covering every time Bubbu needs stitches or Barbie breaks a nail it shouldn't be too outrageously expensive... and since everyone can have it save that money/time spent searching for the frauds... I donno if that's possible, but seems like that'd be a heck of a lot better than what they came up with.

How can our government order us to purchase ANY company's product? And if you don't you are fined. Product may or may not get you ANYTHING, and you may not be able to afford the product... but it doesn't matter, you buy it or else. Didn't even try to fix the system, it's the same old stuff that the companies have been doing for decades... but now by law we're all required to put up with it.

I realize that insurance companies employ a lot of people... salespeople, claims processors, lawyers, etc etc... but giving them business, keeping a business open that you KNOW is hurting citizens just because you don't want to T off the hand that feeds you or don't want to make those people lose their jobs is wrong. *sigh* Great big convoluted mess... that's what it is.

You can arrange your own catastrophe deal. Decide how much you are willing to pay for treatment from your own pocket (it could happen several times a year, of course) and buy insurance with that amount as a deductible. I wonder whether the premium reduction would match expectations, though. We once launched an auto insurance product like that and no-one bought it!

My view, having worked in the insurance industry for many years and also benefitted from the NHS, is that a universal scheme will work only if you keep it away from for-profit businesses. Inevitably, there would one day be a conflict between customer needs and the drive to maximise profit. Health is too important a matter to be left to the employees of shareholders and other business owners. Health care should be a social benefit for everyone rather than a commodity sold to selected customers by corporations. I guess that's the leap in philosophy that's needed and I would agree that it's a big one.

By the way, is there any other country in the Western world besides the US that doesn't have a universal State run health service?

Changing tack, here's how the system works in Thailand, hardly the wealthiest country in the world. For the treatment of minor ailments, Thais go to a doctor's clinic. We have at least a dozen in our small market town. Prescriptions are paid for but medication is very cheap. You queue but don't have to wait for an appointment. If you need more serious attention you get to a local State hospital. Ours is two minutes drive from home. The ambulance and volunteer rescue services aren't the hottest so many people just hop into the pick up and go. Treatment in hospital for a Thai national is THB30 (about $0.24). A mere token payment and its covers whatever treatment is needed. I've used our local Sate hospital once. I sliced into the top of my thumb with an electric hedge trimmer. Blood was going everywhere and I had to get help quickly. Mrs. T drove me to the hospital door. I was put straight onto a bed in emergency with not a second's delay. The wound was cleaned and stitched within a few minutes. They changed the dressing daily for me. Foreigners pay but, again, not much.

It's far from state of the art but if a country like Thailand, not really known for its welfare arrangements, can do that then the only thing that's stopping you guys is the power of big corporations and mis-information. I hope that you all get the system you deserve before too much longer. Compulsory private insurance is not it.

 

[PineappleMama]

^Agree... reminds me of the old saying "never trust a skinny cook"... because clearly they aren't eating the food they cook, so you wonder WHY... it's not PEOPLE... patients ... not even doctors that are running healthcare here, it is businessmen (and women) who have nothing but the bottom line in mind. They cover their own bums, THEY are taken care of... but the customers are just numbers... and big profit numbers at that.

Which segues to the fact that in this mess they passed Congress, etc are all Exempt... they know perfectly well that it sucks, that it won't help and most likely will hurt and don't want to expose themselves or THEIR families to such a mess.... but it's perfectly okay for all the other folks... the mere citizens to be ordered to use it.

I think Old MacDonald's coop has been officially renamed Foxy's.

One more reason to boot out all incumbents this, and the following, November.

 

[thaiturkey]

Quote:
Was the recent legislation on this a bodge to get at least something through quickly against fierce opposition? Without wishing to get political, I don't think your other mob will make it any better.

 

[Dunkopf]

It's not that Congress is exempt. They have a standard health care plan as a benefit just like a lot of people. They are given a choice of 10 or 12 different health plans and choose the one best for them. Allegedly that is standard for all govt employees. I would check it out on Gov.com vs FOX news though.

I wouldn't look at who voted for the current health plan to decide who to vote against. I would look at who was supporting the original health plan which was excellent. the final version was passed after 16 months of lies from those opposing it. The current plan is a compromise put forth by the Senate. The House has actually been very productive and has tried to pass a lot of legislation to help the country. There are around 170 bills being held up in the Senate right now. The filibuster has been used a record number of times in the past 18 months. That is the reason why nothing is getting done. Take all that and consider it as you will.

 

[EweSheep]

All good points! I do enjoy reading this!

 

[Dar]

yes its good to see honest non confrontational discussion. This topic has been closed before cause it gets wayyyy out of control..... WTG everyone!

 

[newfoundland]

I think this is a too important matter to be confrontational about. In some ways the US is fortunate to be in the situation of starting from scratch. You can look what goes on around the world and cherry pick the most successful ideas and decide what works best for you. You can campaign for what you want, and make your feelings known at the ballot box. It will not be easy to set up and there may be years of upheaval and of course some dissatisfaction form those who would like things to remain as they are. My mother told me that in the UK some doctors were refusing to become part of the health service when it was set up in 1948. But enough joined for the population to flock to them and join up on their free lists. This left the private doctors out in the cold and so most then were forced to concede and join the health service. I'm sure the same would happen in the US. Whatever the personal costs, good health care is the single most important legacy we can leave our children. You will be hailed as the generation who took health care by the throat and fashioned it into a system that leaves no body, however disadvantaged, without the life long health care that they deserve. Make government serve you!