Adding chicks to small flock

[aart]

Update. I put the chicks in the new addition while I was painting the outside. I placed a barrier at the open junction so they can see out and poke their heads out if they wish. They have been staying in there since 11 am. Four of the hens came in to lay eggs and then left dining their egg songs. The crate is right next to the coop door with the crate door open. It is pretty much ignored but all of the hens and chicks are used to it. Last night was the first night with the roofing addition open ended and no one slept in there. The hens went to their old spaces. And the chicks were inside the crate inside.
I just moved the addition barrier to make it wide enough so they can leave if they want to. They have food and water in there with them. To get out they will need to walk through the original space or wait for us to open the door. I would rather they choose to go out on their own. Do you think they will be able to find their way back if they do?

Hard to say.
You'll probably have to juggle things for at least a few days.
I'd leave them confined to the addition tonite,
then open the barrier in the morning after the existing birds leave the coop,
and see what they do.

 

[Ridgerunner]

So they have only been there a few hours? I suggested a week or so. Get them in the habit of staying and sleeping there. Just a few hours, probably won't return if I understand what you did correctly.

Once they get used to that being where they sleep, they should want to return there at night. It's likely they will not want to return there during the day, being outside is too much fun.

One problem I have had the first time or two I let them out. This usually does not happen but it has a couple of times. When it gets dark they desperately want to get back to their sleeping area. They are almost in a panic trying to get back. They went out of a gate to get outside but then went along the fence. When it started to get dark the straightest way to the coop was through that fence. But they could not get through the fence. Although they had been in and out of that gate a few times during the day they were so panicked they did not think to walk 10' along the fence to get to the gate. I had to help them find that gate. After a couple of nights they do OK but it is important to be out there the first night or two at bedtime in case they do need help. I've had this type of stuff happen with a broody hen and her chicks too.

As I said, this usually is not an issue. They usually get it right. But every now and them, you can get a few that lose all concept of gate for a while.

 

[ZenSyd]

So they have only been there a few hours? I suggested a week or so. Get them in the habit of staying and sleeping there. Just a few hours, probably won't return if I understand what you did correctly.

Once they get used to that being where they sleep, they should want to return there at night. It's likely they will not want to return there during the day, being outside is too much fun.

One problem I have had the first time or two I let them out. This usually does not happen but it has a couple of times. When it gets dark they desperately want to get back to their sleeping area. They are almost in a panic trying to get back. They went out of a gate to get outside but then went along the fence. When it started to get dark the straightest way to the coop was through that fence. But they could not get through the fence. Although they had been in and out of that gate a few times during the day they were so panicked they did not think to walk 10' along the fence to get to the gate. I had to help them find that gate. After a couple of nights they do OK but it is important to be out there the first night or two at bedtime in case they do need help. I've had this type of stuff happen with a broody hen and her chicks too.

As I said, this usually is not an issue. They usually get it right. But every now and them, you can get a few that lose all concept of gate for a while.

The chicks had been having look don’t touch interactions with the hens when we started bringing the crate out to attach it to the mini run which is about 20 feet from the coop.
Would I see signs of aggression toward the chicks before a full blown fight? Maybe I’m giving them too much credit

 

[Ridgerunner]

One reason I suggest leaving the crate in one place for a week is so they gt used to it being there so they know where to go to sleep when it gets dark. It doesn't always work, but they usually at least go back to that area when it gets dark so they can be fairly easy to catch. If they left the crate yesterday, what did they do when it became dark?

It will not be a fight. What typically happens with mine is that they get too close to the adults and invade their personal space. The adults peck them and the chicks run away. There may be a little chasing but usually not much. The chicks typically learn to avoid the adults pretty quickly. They keep their distance. Some version of this is what I'd expect to happen to yours since yours free range.

If a chick cannot run away then the adult may not stop attacking. This is where most of the horror stories come from and why we say the more room the better. If a chick gets trapped by a fence it cannot run away. The hen doesn't stop attacking. In a small run or coop there is no place for a chick to go. You may have that problem in your coop, maybe not. But since you free range them it's unlikely they will get trapped outside.

It is possible you will have a hen that attacks chicks just because. It doesn't happen that often when you free range. I've never seen it myself in all the time I've been doing it but there are people on this forum I trust that say they have. Often it is a hen pretty low in the pecking order, she seems jealous and wants to defend her spot in the pecking order so she doesn't go lower. Or maybe she is a psycho brute that hates chicks but usually gets along great with the adult hens. I think this is where exposing them to each other across wire helps. They are no longer strangers but are part of the flock by the time they get to mingle.
It will not be a fight, the chick will not fight back. If it runs away and gets away, great. The danger is when the chick feels trapped. It will probably hunker down and try to protect its head from the hen pecking it. That is when you need to intervene.

 

[ZenSyd]

I sae

One reason I suggest leaving the crate in one place for a week is so they gt used to it being there so they know where to go to sleep when it gets dark. It doesn't always work, but they usually at least go back to that area when it gets dark so they can be fairly easy to catch. If they left the crate yesterday, what did they do when it became dark?

It will not be a fight. What typically happens with mine is that they get too close to the adults and invade their personal space. The adults peck them and the chicks run away. There may be a little chasing but usually not much. The chicks typically learn to avoid the adults pretty quickly. They keep their distance. Some version of this is what I'd expect to happen to yours since yours free range.

If a chick cannot run away then the adult may not stop attacking. This is where most of the horror stories come from and why we say the more room the better. If a chick gets trapped by a fence it cannot run away. The hen doesn't stop attacking. In a small run or coop there is no place for a chick to go. You may have that problem in your coop, maybe not. But since you free range them it's unlikely they will get trapped outside.

It is possible you will have a hen that attacks chicks just because. It doesn't happen that often when you free range. I've never seen it myself in all the time I've been doing it but there are people on this forum I trust that say they have. Often it is a hen pretty low in the pecking order, she seems jealous and wants to defend her spot in the pecking order so she doesn't go lower. Or maybe she is a psycho brute that hates chicks but usually gets along great with the adult hens. I think this is where exposing them to each other across wire helps. They are no longer strangers but are part of the flock by the time they get to mingle.
It will not be a fight, the chick will not fight back. If it runs away and gets away, great. The danger is when the chick feels trapped. It will probably hunker down and try to protect its head from the hen pecking it. That is when you need to intervene.

We did leave the crate outside of the coop and it will stay there for a while. The chicks slept in the addition with a cardboard barricade open only an inch or 2 on the side so they could see the hens. At sunrise we opened the coop to let the hens out and opened the chick barricade. Shortly after that the chicks came out on their own and as they wandered around outside of the coop but still in the fence they approached the large water container and the hen at the bottom of the pecking order pecked at their feet causing them to run back into the coop, up the ramp and into their space. My husband observed this. so I think you are right on about how this will play out. Before we left to go to town today on errands, the chicks were out again so we opened their crate and convinced them to go inside and then closed them in so they would be safe while we were away. Back home now we let them loose in the fenced in area where I constructed a chick playground with hiding spaces around the coop.

 

[ZenSyd]

I sae

We did leave the crate outside of the coop and it will stay there for a while. The chicks slept in the addition with a cardboard barricade open only an inch or 2 on the side so they could see the hens. At sunrise we opened the coop to let the hens out and opened the chick barricade. Shortly after that the chicks came out on their own and as they wandered around outside of the coop but still in the fence they approached the large water container and the hen at the bottom of the pecking order pecked at their feet causing them to run back into the coop, up the ramp and into their space. My husband observed this. so I think you are right on about how this will play out. Before we left to go to town today on errands, the chicks were out again so we opened their crate and convinced them to go inside and then closed them in so they would be safe while we were away. Back home now we let them loose in the fenced in area where I constructed a chick playground with hiding spaces around the coop.

Also yesterday we placed the chicks in the addition. They were in there with food and water until this morning when the hens went out. It was then that we opened it up for them to leave. The chicks were. I fined when we left for a short while. They are hanging close to the coop now within the fence but the gate is open and will stay that way until dusk. We are keeping an eye on them. I hope they stay close so they can at least get back to the crate if they leave the fence. Most of what you taught me is playing out and is much appreciated.

 

[Mrs. K]

As you let your big girls out, I would LOCK them out, and the chicks inside for a day. Putting the crate in there. More than likely (mine are doing this now) they will go to the crate at dark, and you can put it where you are now doing so. Let the big girls back in to go to bed.

Next day, repeat, this time doing as advised, setting up a safety zone, where as the chicks can get away from the big girls if needed. Set up the crate again...

Then, third day - put the chicks from the crate into the coop near dark, and let the big girls back in, they will go to roost in the dark, and just set the alarm so that you get down there early to let them out, and you should have it pretty much done.

I think there is a benefit, of the older girls seeing the chicks in the set up, where as they can't chase them. And I think there is a benefit for the chicks to explore the area and the coop, finding hideouts, and escape routes without being chased for their lives before you combine them.

Mrs K

 

[ZenSyd]

So you are in Wisconsin and your chicks are two months old. They can handle your weather, that is not an issue.

Do you consider that dog crate and mini-run predator proof so you can leave them out there at night? Or can you put that crate someplace that is? You also want it protected from rain and somewhere the adults can see it when they free range. Or do you have something else that can be a predator proof weather proof shelter for them.

With my understanding of your current situation I'd house those chicks outside for a week or so in a shelter/run to get them used to sleeping there. Then turn them loose to free range during the day but returning to that shelter at night. After three or four weeks of free ranging with the adults, I'd try moving them into the main coop at night. Move them in after dark, I just put them on the coop floor, they sleep wherever they sleep. As long as it is dark in the coop the older chickens can't see to attack them. Just be down there at first light so you can see how it is going and you can open the pop door.

There is a fair chance the next night they will want to return to their shelter instead of the main coop when it gets dark. I'd lock up the shelter so they can't get inside but leave the min-run open so they can go in there. You should be able to shut that to make them easier to catch if you need to. If it is dark they should be easy to catch but if you have security lights out there it could be more of a challenge. Just keep putting them in the main coop at night until they get the message. And be down there at first light until you are sure they will be OK locked in with the adults.

My facilities look a lot different from yours, it's nice to have a big walk-in coop. But you have what you have. I have two concerns with your integration. I envision your coop is still pretty small and does not provide a lot of hiding places or areas the young ones can get away from the older ones. In the morning when I do this it's pretty normal for my chicks to be on the roosts while the adults are on the coop floor. Your roosts may not be high enough for that to protect the chicks from the adults. I also have other areas where the chicks can hide from the adults. I'm not sure your coop is big enough to allow you to do that. A typical method is to lean a piece of plywood against a wall (fasten the top so it can't be knocked over). This gives them a good hiding spot but do it in a way that the chicks are not trapped. Leave both sides open.

My other concern are when they are going to bed. That's when mine are most vicious to each other. My brooder-raised chicks will not sleep on the main roosts with the adults until they pretty much mature, which is about the time they start laying eggs. So they look for a safer place to sleep. That might be your nests, that might even be a place outside the coop. As long as it is not in my nests and is a predator proof location I don't care where it is but this is a time you need to be observant.

In spite of what you read on this forum, sometimes these things go so smoothly you wonder what all the concern was about. The more room you have the more likely it is to be peaceful. That's why I'm so concerned about your coop, I think it is going to be pretty tight. But it could go really smoothly, I hope so. But occasionally you can have a disaster. That's why I suggest you go slowly, give them time to get used to each other. I think that helps your odds too.

Update
It’s been 2 weeks and I believe they are now acclimated and integrated. We wired off the chicken house addition with a small opening for them to travel through. We gathered and placed the Chicks in the addition each night at bed time and put a barrier at the opening in the wire net then removing it at first light. During this time we left their brooder dog crate out in front of the coop for them to use as a marker to find their way back. The chicks would find their way out each morning but it took until last night for them to find their way into their sleeping place on their own.
Meanwhile the chicks free range during the day destroying any flowers close to the house that they can get to and frequently stand pining at the back door on our deck as if they want to return to their life in the house.
They stay together during the day as they wander about. There has been no fighting but the birds do seem to have formed two flocks and do not seem to mix in the yard. The adult hens wander much farther from the coop than the chicks who stay between the people house and the chicken coop.
Last night we were away until dusk and returned to find the hens on the roost in the coop and the chicks in their sleeping place. The one boss hen was in the chicken house next to the wire separation to the chick addition. She always sleeps on a shelf inside the house part of the coop but this time she was right next to the wire separating the addition and the original ‘house’. Also last night, we did not put a barrier at the opening in the wire and today we are planning to remove the chicken wire in between the addition and the old house so all of the birds will have access to the entire coop. ???Do you think this is a good idea??? We are also planning to pack up the dog crate brooder and remove it from the coop area.
Thank you so much for your help and advice. It really helped us during this new experience. I can see why you have an award as an educator on this site

 

[Ridgerunner]

today we are planning to remove the chicken wire in between the addition and the old house so all of the birds will have access to the entire coop. ???Do you think this is a good idea?

You can certainly try it. See how it goes and where they try to sleep. And be down there first thing next morning when they first wake up. Good luck with it.