Adding on to small coop to house more birds- 2 "rooms" ok?

[andreamunroe]

I am soon getting back into backyard chickens, we kept 3 hens a few years ago and loved them, but eventually lost them to a raccoon one night when I forgot to lock up the coop . Our old coop needs a few new shingles and a fresh coat of paint, but I'll need a new run which I will make from our old swingset.

The coop is predator-proof, well-ventilated, and insulated (I'm in NS Canada, it gets down to -20 and -30 Celsius in the depths of winter here, we are zone 5a), but it is quite small: 3ft wide x 4ft long x 4 ft high, with 2 roosts inside that are 3ft long each, made of 2x4 boards laid flat. There is one nest box that is attached to the outside of the coop (through a window, sortof) so it doesn't take up room inside the coop.

I have a swing set that is an A-frame, about 10 feet long, 8 feet wide, and 8 feet tall. I'm planning to make this into a new run by covering it in 1/2" 19 gauge hardware cloth, and butt this up against the back-end of the coop, where there is a pop door. I'll put in a human door at the other end. I have some old wood panelling from a basement room (think dark wood-grain, but made of some sort of MDF, not actual wood). I'd like to use this panelling to cover part of the run- the end that butts up against the coop, about 4 feet of the run will be covered (I'll paint and/or seal this well, or otherwise waterproof it). This would give the run (as well as the pop door) lots of shelter, as I hope to keep the pop door open and the run accessible basically 24/7 except during winter storms/high winds. I could also cover more of the run for the cold months if needed. I will bury 1ft of the hardware cloth to make things safe. We have mature trees all around, so there is lots of shade and windbreak.

My goal is to use what I have, spend very little aside from the hardware cloth, and come up with a plan that gives my birds more livable space, that is predator-proof, so I don't have to worry about closing the coop at night. The hens will be able to free-range my yard (large town lot) daily for a couple of hours when my kids and I are outside with them, except if we're away for the weekend. Here are my questions:

1) If I keep the water and food outside in the sheltered area of the run, is this coop large enough for 4 standard hens, given that they'll also have the large run that will be half sheltered? I have good hardy birds made for our winters coming (barred rock, rhode island red, australorps). If not, do you think it would work for me to convert part of the swingset run into additional "coop space" with a dividing wall, or would this be weird for the hens, to have "two rooms"?

2) Do you think that the wood panelling is secure enough on it's own, or should I install this OVER the hardware cloth to be safe? My main predators are raccoons, as our back yard is fenced- dogs are not an issue, and I've never seen foxes here in town, though there are coyotes in the old-growth park a few kilometers away- never heard of one coming into town though.

3) Do you think the panelling is a poor choice in terms of weather/rain, even if sealed/painted/wrapped in vapour barrier/plastic of some sort? Would you recommend roofing panels, or plywood (what thickness?) or something else?

4) Any other considerations?

Thanks so much for your insight. I have lots of time- I'm skipping the chicks and will be going to pick up pullets in late May.

 

[aart]

but it is quite small: 3ft wide x 4ft long x 4 ft high....is this coop large enough for 4 standard hens

Pretty tight space for 4 birds in your climate.

Do you think that the wood panelling is secure enough on it's own, or should I install this OVER the hardware cloth to be safe?

Absolutely

Do you think the panelling is a poor choice in terms of weather/rain, even if sealed/painted/wrapped in vapour barrier/plastic of some sort? Would you recommend roofing panels, or plywood (what thickness?) or something else?

Yes, it will deteriorate if it gets wet.
Covering with a good tarp is probably the best choice.

 

[Ebony Rose]

Since you're only using the coop for sleeping arrangements, it's **just* large enough with no room to spare, but you won't be able to close the door on them to preserve heat in deep winter. In deep winter, you need an area of 10 square feet per bird, floor space is what is needed here, height of the building doesn't account for much unless that height can provide walking and stretching room, and places to get away from the other birds. Space.

I wouldn't use the paneling on this project. Once moist, all bets are off. Sealing it for water resistance won't cut it, as that's not water PROOF, so rain after rain will find your paneling becoming weaker and weaker. Zinc roofing material is reasonably cheap, light weight, totally waterproof, able to withstand snow and can be attached to your A-frame (swing set) with roofing screws. It's pretty easy to work with and can be cut to specific sizes with a metal cutting wheel on a circular saw. Zinc has the ability to 'repair' minor nicks and scratches through the oxidation process, and can last twenty, thirty years or more. They even make pre-bent peak roof pieces to fit nicely over the A-frame of the swing set to seal the roof from a downpour. Here in Panama, Zinc roofing costs much less than cheap plastic tarps, probably because they sell more zinc than plastic. Absolutely no doubt that zinc roofing will far outlast tarps. I'm of a mind to build once and forget it. I don't like making repeated repairs.

While you've got the hardware cloth and tools handy, might as well lay some out on your A-frame run's ground area as well, this will prevent burrowing predators. Again, it's reasonably cheap and easy to do, but will save you from kicking yourself later should a hen come up gone.

 

[andreamunroe]

Since you're only using the coop for sleeping arrangements, it's **just* large enough with no room to spare, but you won't be able to close the door on them to preserve heat in deep winter. In deep winter, you need an area of 10 square feet per bird, floor space is what is needed here, height of the building doesn't account for much unless that height can provide walking and stretching room, and places to get away from the other birds. Space.

Do you think that converting/building part of the run to be a totally enclosed, draft-free space would make this setup OK for four birds? It would create a coop that was a bit more segmented, like 2 rooms with a small pop-door size opening between them, unless I want to really hack the existing coop apart.

If so, would building it 4 feet into the top half (peak) of the A-frame be OK, creating an extra 12 sqft of "coop floor space" (leaving outdoor but protected run space beneath), or would it be best to basically open up the back of the coop and extend it a few feet, using the whole space from ground floor to peak? I'll see if I can draw something up and post it later.

Our average winter temperatures are technically -8 to -12'C from Dec-March. When I posted -20'C to -30'C above, I was forgetting that those are windchill temperatures, it very rarely gets below -17'C, and the coop is quite sheltered.

Thanks for the tips on the metal roofing, I'm definitely going to look into that. If I extend/build onto the current coop, I'll maybe sandwich foam insulation between the roofing on the outside and use the panel on the inside, which is what my current coop is like now.

I *could* just get 3 hens but I'd really rather 4. Of course I'll choose to get only 3 if it really wont work, of course. I've never really red up on bantam birds or if those might be a better option either.

Oh heck. This is making me just want to build a whole new big coop and get 8 or 10 birds haha. No budget for that nonsense... I'm going to have to get creative to drum up $ for this project as-is, with my husband rolling his eyes from the sidelines. In an ideal scenario, we'll be selling this house that is in town (no roo's allowed) and buying a house on a few acres just outside of town within the next few years- that's when I build my dream coop just the way I want it.

 

[Ebony Rose]

Bigger is always better with chicken coops and runs, but I think you can actually get the extra space if you're going to make part of the run space covered AND with a door for wintertime so you can 'winterize' that to conserve heat AND give them the needed floor space, and in the summer leave the door open between the two halves of your A-frame to give them free rein of the space. When you get moved, you'll want a super-duper, ultra D-lux version, big enough for 50 birds LOL In the meantime, I'd price out the zinc roofing before deciding how you want to go; you might be able to build a fine coop with a bit of lumber to hang the roofing and a door on. How many months per year is it cold there? I love bantams, but be mindful that smaller birds = smaller eggs, but they'll eat less and require slightly less space than standard sized hens and a lot less space than giant-breeds. **re-reads original post** The swing set is 80 square feet of floor space. Yes. If you take 3 to 4 feet (from the 10 foot side) and converted that into coop space to add to what you already have, you'd gain the needed 24 to 32 extra square feet needed for happy healthy hens (adding to your existing 12 square feet) in the winter. That would leave you with 6 or 7 feet x 8 feet (48 to 56 square feet) of outdoor run. You're right. That would be perfect for your needs. Zinc is usually sold in 3 1/2 foot widths here, might be different there.

 

[andreamunroe]

Thanks so much! Now I've just got to figure out the plans of how to do it all. I'll work on that bit and I'm sure I'll be back for feedback once I have a few options sketched up!

 

[wamtazlady]

Your coop will be a bit tight for 4 birds but it might be okay if part of your run is dry. I also agree with those who say the paneling is probably not such a great idea. You would probably have to replace it in a year or so. However, if you already have paneling to use and you don't mind replacing it in a short time then you could use it. The main thing with your run is to make sure there are no breezes in it during the winter months. If the run is dry and breeze free you can keep your water and food in there. Birds will spend all day outside if they have a draft free and dry run.

With your coop only being 4 feet high you will have to be careful how you place your vents. You want them to be above where the chickens roost. For you this probably means having low roosts. Plan on having as close to 4 square feet of vent that you can do that is open year round. A dry chicken is a warm chicken. Chickens make a lot of moisture when they poop and breathe. You want to vent this warm, but humid air out of the coop. Since your coop is a bit small you will have to make sure the vents do their jobs to prevent frostbite. So, you want a well ventilated coop that does not have a breeze blowing on the birds. A breeze will ruffle their feathers. Birds trap warm air under that feathers to keep warm and if the feathers are ruffled they will lose that warm air.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck. We have all had first coops and have all made some decisions we wish we had done differently. It is a matter of trying to see what works best for each person.

 

[andreamunroe]

Thanks for all the help, it is so appreciated! Here is what I have to work with:

This is an old picture of the coop (that toddler is now 9 years old), it is 3ft x 4ft, and now that i look at it, I think it is more like 5ft tall. It is raining right now so I'm not going out to measure haha. I have a triange vent at the peak of the front and back, I used to install a triangle board right at the end of the roof in the winter, so that the wind couldnt blow straight in, this left about 6" between the vent and the board. There are also vents along both eaves. That window on the side comes out and the opening is lined with 1/2" hardware cloth, it stayed open all summer. The bottom part of the big door is like a removable threshold so I could easily rake out the bedding, but in the summers I used to ditch that board and put hardware cloth too.

This next pic is an old pic of the coop from the back, this was before it was finished, i later added a door on the side so I could go in and clean it (originally, we used to move the coop and run to fresh grass every few days, then i realized that it was too heavy for that nonsense, and parked it, and just let the chickens free range the yard when we were there). This pic shows the pop door, the back triangle vent, and what it looks like when the glass window is removed. This old run is pretty much toast- the boards are fine but the hardware cloth is ripped. It's too small anyways, but I could use the lumber to extend the coop. There are 7 birds in this pic because I'd gotten straight run birds, I returned the 4 that ended up being male to the farm not long after this, so I only actually had 3 hens in this coop/run.

Here is the swingset that I would like to make into a bigger run.

So here is what I'm thinking. I would like to raise the old coop up on legs/cement blocks/whatever. I'll then put the old run and the coop side by side along the side where the window is, and remove the hardware cloth that is in the window. I'll turn the run into a coop space by adding a floor and walls and a sloped roof and figure out proper venting, then add the swingset-run onto the back of the old coop where the pop door is like this. Sorry for the non-fancy sketch. Here the blue line is the opening were the window is now, which would be like the interior doorway between the two "rooms" of the coop. The red is the current vents, and I'm not sure where I'd add vents to the new part.

Any thoughts?