Adding to my flock

[Kalawrence85]

I am new to chickens. We lost several to a predator issue while free ranging. We have since switched to secured coops/runs. I have one run that has a bantam birchen Roo and he has 4 hens (mixed breeds). I have another run with 2 roos who live together happily with no hens. All are about 6 mths old. I would like to get some
More hens in the spring. Is it better to integrate them in with the 2 Roos or add to the flock of Roo/hens? Basically which flock would cause the least pecking order issues

 

[Shadrach]

I am new to chickens. We lost several to a predator issue while free ranging. We have since switched to secured coops/runs. I have one run that has a bantam birchen Roo and he has 4 hens (mixed breeds). I have another run with 2 roos who live together happily with no hens. All are about 6 mths old. I would like to get some
More hens in the spring. Is it better to integrate them in with the 2 Roos or add to the flock of Roo/hens? Basically which flock would cause the least pecking order issues

Why not wait and let nature do the flock increase for you, assuming your roo will fertilize the 4 hens eggs.
In the event that the hens won't sit you could incubate some eggs in a machine.

 

[Mrs. K]

If you hatch, you will get a lot more roosters.

As to which group to add too, it is less about who is in the group, and more about space and how the set up is arranged, and age and size of the birds. So, you could add to either group and you will be adding strange birds, and that will discombobulate things for a bit.

To add birds to a layer flock, adding more is easier than adding one or two birds. It spreads out the pecking. Pecking is exhausting for the bully, and there is only so much they can do. If you have a lot of hide outs, multiple feeders, roosts, platforms, and mini walls where birds can get out of sight of each other... it works better. Many runs are just wide open rectangles where a bird can see any other bird at all times. Makes for a difficult integration.

If you add pretty small chicks, I have had good luck at 3-4 weeks old, with a safety zone set up, which is just an area they start out in, and can retreat too, without the big birds chasing them.

Or if you add full size adult birds, point of lay birds, add close to an equal number as your flock and I have had very little problems. However, I do have more than enough space.

Do not think that "free ranging" will let you have more birds. It won't. Sometimes you have to be able to lock them up. The flock needs to fit into that.

Pictures always help give advice.

Mrs K

 

[aart]

I am new to chickens. We lost several to a predator issue while free ranging. We have since switched to secured coops/runs. I have one run that has a bantam birchen Roo and he has 4 hens (mixed breeds). I have another run with 2 roos who live together happily with no hens. All are about 6 mths old. I would like to get some
More hens in the spring. Is it better to integrate them in with the 2 Roos or add to the flock of Roo/hens? Basically which flock would cause the least pecking order issues

Both scenarios are going to cause pecking order issues.

What are your goals for having chickens?
How big are your coops and runs, in feet by feet?
Dimensions and pics would really help here.

Here's some tips about....
Integration Basics:
It's all about territory and resources(space/food/water).
Existing birds will almost always attack new ones to defend their resources.
Understanding chicken behaviors is essential to integrating new birds into your flock.

Confine new birds within sight but physically segregated from older/existing birds for several weeks, so they can see and get used to each other but not physically interact.

In adjacent runs, spread scratch grains along the dividing mesh, best if mesh is just big enough for birds to stick their head thru, so they get used to eating together.

The more space, the better. Birds will peck to establish dominance, the pecked bird needs space to get away. As long as there's no copious blood drawn and/or new bird is not trapped/pinned down and beaten unmercilessly, let them work it out. Every time you interfere or remove new birds, they'll have to start the pecking order thing all over again.

Multiple feed/water stations. Dominance issues are most often carried out over sustenance, more stations lessens the frequency of that issue.

Places for the new birds to hide 'out of line of sight'(but not a dead end trap) and/or up and away from any bully birds. Roosts, pallets or boards leaned up against walls or up on concrete blocks, old chairs tables, branches, logs, stumps out in the run can really help. Lots of diversion and places to 'hide' instead of bare wide open run.
Good ideas for hiding places:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/a-cluttered-run.1323792/



Oh, and.... Welcome to BYC! @Kalawrence85
Where in this world are you located?
Climate, and time of year, is almost always a factor.
Please add your general geographical location to your profile.
It's easy to do, (laptop version shown), then it's always there!

 

[Ridgerunner]

Basically which flock would cause the least pecking order issues

There is no way to tell ahead of time. Even if we knew the answer to all the questions asked above the best we'd be able to do would be to make suggestions as to how you might make integration easier. I'd also want to know where you are located and when in the spring you plan to get them so I'd know what weather to expect. If you get baby chicks, where will you brood them? My preference would be with the others but is that possible? Sizes in feet or meters of all your coops and runs and how they are tied together, hopefully with a few photos. To me, ages and age differences is critical information.

They will establish a pecking order, that's what chickens do. Sometimes that is so slick and smooth you don't notice any drama, sometimes chickens get seriously injured or die. There are several techniques that can help smooth the process but to suggest which might apply to you and how you might use them we'd need to know what you have to work with. One of the great unknowns is the personality of the individual birds. Sometimes the mildest, meekest, sweetest hen can tun into a killing machine. It doesn't happen often but it can, you just don't know until you try it.

My goal for an integration is not that they all immediately are one cozy flock that hangs together with no drama. That would be nice and can happen, but my goal is that none get seriously injured or dead. That can take time, especially if you are bringing in immature birds to a more mature flock. But with patience and sufficient room it can be managed.

I will repeat another question. What are your goals toward those cockerels? Why are you keeping three males? Why do you have them separated? Understanding your goals instead of mine might help point me in a better direction for you.

 

[Kalawrence85]

Thank you all for the very helpful responses! I have updated my profile information. I am located in Morganton, NC (near Asheville). My current flock of birds is about 6 months old. I did successfully integrated 3 new hens into my flock after losing several to predators. The new hens were only about a month age difference from my current (basically introduced 4 month old birds to 3 month old birds).

The two cockerels are separated from the rest of the flock as they got a respiratory infection in November. After recovering, the rest of the flock would not allow them back. Things got rowdy and it was clear the flock was trying to eliminate them. I am attached to them, so basically I have two cockerels that are just amusing and beautiful pets.

The other cockerel is in with the flock and happy. He is just for flock protection and again, a pet. I hatched the eggs myself and kept the lot which is how I ended up with 3 roos.

I want the hens for eggs.

I have brooded my chickens in a small brooder box in our barn previously and once old enough released into the coop.

I have one lot that is 11 x 14 with a 3 ftx4ft coop and another that is 22 x 11 with an 8ftx4ft coop that I am in the process of expanding. I have plenty of space to expand the 22 x 11 lot and increase its size.

I have some mini walls, wire spools, and multiple feeders/waterers. I will try to get some pictures once I get some daylight.

I intend to get the hens from a local farm or a reputable poultry breeder/show. I don't want to hatch again as I don't need more roos. I really just didn't know as far as the pecking order with, if the two cockerels would accept the hens better than the flock with exisiting hens. I do understand that everyone isn't going to love it and play nice at first.

Thanks again everyone!!

 

[Mrs. K]

If you can get the hens, I would go for it. And if you can get half the number of your current flock or more, it will make it better. Spreads out the pecking over more birds, they seem to come together faster.

I would add to the laying flock, cause I want my hens together.

I would let the layers and rooster out, lock them out, and lock the new ones in. That lets them explore the area, without being chased. They find the hide outs, the feed stations, gain a little confidence. Feed near the fence on both sides - so everyone sees each other.

Do not let the old ones in till as close to dark as you can get it. Then let them in, the urge to fight should about equal the urge to roost. Keep the light off in the coop, if you have one. Get down there early in the morning. You may have to separate them again, or you may have to separate one or two really mean birds.

Let them work it out as much as possible. If you get a couple of really mean birds, stick them in with the bachelor roosters.

Feathers flying, running around, squawking is perfectly normal, let that go. Several birds attacking one bird, hunkered down and taking it is not. But people often remove the victim, don't... remove the wicked ones. Often times just removing two or three of the worst ones, will be enough.

They will still be sub flocks until the new set starts laying.

Mrs K

 

[Ridgerunner]

Still not sure how many new ones you plan to get or how old they will be. I'd guess the current cockerel and pullets are in the bigger set-up. That's where I'd add the new ones. Not sure that coop is big enough but maybe. The run is probably big enough since you have clutter in it. My main run is about 12' x 32' and I have a big area inside electric netting so your run still feels small but it's not as tiny as it could be.

I'm going to assume they will be at least 6 weeks old, maybe older, since you want to be sure you have pullets so weather will not be an issue in the spring. I'll assume they are not that near point of lay. I personally don't like to lock laying hens away from their nests if they are laying. While one day probably won't make any difference I just don't like the idea of teaching a hen to lay anywhere other than her nest. It can be a pain to retrain them.

I think the way I'd approach this would be to fence off a part of that run for the new pullets and put a shelter in it to protect them from weather (and predators if you do not consider your run predator proof). You will not need a nest since they will not be laying. You could add a roost if you wish but not sure it is needed. Lots of options. Could be temporary or you could build something permanent to be a broody buster or a place to isolate an injured chicken. Or you could build a new coop/shelter and run with a door into the main run. Always different ways to go about it.

I'd house the chicks in there for a week or more before opening the door to let them mingle with the others. If they are small enough possibly use the safe haven/panic room approach. Have an entry into the main run that the chicks fit but the older ones don't. That way they can mingle at their pace but escape if harassed.

After they have peacefully mingled for two or three weeks try moving them into the main coop at night after it is too dark for the older ones to attack them. Be down there at daylight to see how it is going. This is pretty close to how I do this but my main coop is 8' x 12' and has clutter and extra roosts. The time I'd be most worried is when they are locked in that main coop after they wake up. What I typically find is that the younger ones are on the roosts avoiding the old ones on the coop floor.

There are plenty of other ways to go about this. I'm not trying to say that my way is better than anyone else's, just that it is something that has worked for me.

I would not put the pullets in with the two cockerels. They may be OK now but when the girls grow up the two may decide then need to fight over them. As long as there are no girls to fight over they tend to not fight. So don't change that part.