ADDITIONAL INFO: Ugh. My Margo. Again.

[AmyJane725]

Well, that’s tricky because my flock poops all over his yard, too. It’s very rustic, there are no fences, and we get along fine.

Ah, well if your birds poop in his yard then I suppose it's fair. Maybe consider putting up a fence or something to keep the cats out/your birds in? We have no fences at my house either, but my birds live inside a large fully enclosed run because their mommy is extremely paranoid (and for good reason because the woods behind my house are crawling with predators besides just his cat)...

And I love that your mom’s name is Margo. Same spelling?

Yep. Same spelling. I told her that a lady on my chicken forum has a hen with the same name as her. She laughed. It's funny, when I was in elementary school we were reading a book about a girl who lived on Mars (or some other planet) and the sun only came out once a year, so it was a big deal. Anyway, the other kids all hated this girl and locked her in the closet when the sun came out and she missed it. Her name was Margot. I thought you pronounced the "t" though, and that it was some made up alien name since the story took place off of Earth. Little did I know it was just the French spelling.

On the botulism note, my dog has been bringing home what appear to be deer bones. However, they don’t seem to have any flesh on them.

Interestingly enough, my brother had botulism as a baby (he survived). I don't know if it's the same in chickens as in people, but not being able to swallow was his first symptom, and the paralysis came on pretty quickly after that. It was complete though. He was totally paralyzed (on life support) for 4 months.

 

[micstrachan]

Ah, well if your birds poop in his yard then I suppose it's fair. Maybe consider putting up a fence or something to keep the cats out/your birds in? We have no fences at my house either, but my birds live inside a large fully enclosed run because their mommy is extremely paranoid (and for good reason because the woods behind my house are crawling with predators besides just his cat)...

Yep. Same spelling. I told her that a lady on my chicken forum has a hen with the same name as her. She laughed. It's funny, when I was in elementary school we were reading a book about a girl who lived on Mars (or some other planet) and the sun only came out once a year, so it was a big deal. Anyway, the other kids all hated this girl and locked her in the closet when the sun came out and she missed it. Her name was Margot. I thought you pronounced the "t" though, and that it was some made up alien name since the story took place off of Earth. Little did I know it was just the French spelling.

Interestingly enough, my brother had botulism as a baby (he survived). I don't know if it's the same in chickens as in people, but not being able to swallow was his first symptom, and the paralysis came on pretty quickly after that. It was complete though. He was totally paralyzed (on life support) for 4 months.

Wow, how scary! Your parents must have been beside themselves with worry!

We have tons of predators, too. (hawks, eagles, owls, opossums, skunks, raccoons, bobcats, coyotes and even mountain lions), so the flock is only let out of the run when I’m home and the dog can help me supervise.

 

[AmyJane725]

Wow, how scary! Your parents must have been beside themselves with worry!

We have tons of predators, too. (hawks, eagles, owls, opossums, skunks, raccoons, bobcats, coyotes and even mountain lions), so the flock is only let out of the run when I’m home and the dog can help me supervise.

Yeah they were. It it sucked, because the hospital has little apartments for the parents of the sick kids (it's a children's hospital) so she stayed up there with him the entire time, which left me and my brother home alone with my dad, who is an abusive monster. So that was less than ideal...but I digress. I'm thinking it's gonna come back that Margo had some kind of infection. I don't think botulism causes bloody lungs. It just causes all the nerve cells to be unable to release neurotransmitters, so they can't communicate with the muscles. Once they're inhibited they can never work again, so the cells have to grow completely new axons if they're ever going to talk to the muscles again (reverse the paralysis). No bleeding of lungs involved.

Dang, I should have built a less secure run and argued that I need to be allowed to get a guard poodle to help protect my flock

 

[micstrachan]

My thought is infection, too. Margo felt HOT. But we’ll see.

Edited to add: But I don’t know where the infection would have come from. Her oviduct was unremarkable. They only swabbed liver, lungs and throat (?) but they will examine tissues microscopically. Margo’s body is a week old today. I hope they can still learn something.

I’m sorry you had to deal with all that growing up. But I’m glad you found chicken therapy!

 

[AmyJane725]

I’m sorry you had to deal with all that growing up. But I’m glad you found chicken therapy!

Chicken therapy is a million times more effective than real therapy! Saved my life.

 

[micstrachan]

Well, we have more preliminary information. First, @Texas Kiki, YES I am dismayed to say Margo had abundant fat stores. No more treats for my flock. However, there was no fatty change in the liver and therefore not a contributor to clinical disease. This does very much concern me for the rest of my flock.

The laboratory findings are BRUTAL:
Chronic ongoing egg yolk peritonitis and Marek's disease
– Liver extensive and spleen mild fibrin deposition
– Ovarian stroma fibrin deposition and heterophils
– Chronic ongoing moderate coelomitis with intralesional egg yolk protein – Multifocal mild to moderate perivascular lymphocytic peripheral neuritis - Lymphocytic periureteritis

7/5/2019: Mango seems to have had ongoing egg yolk peritonitis and there is evidence of Marek's disease on microscopy. The fibrin depositions in the liver and spleen are commonly associated with acute systemic infection, although we had no growth on lung and liver cultures thus the etiologic agent cannot be identified. Nevertheless it is likely a spontaneous and sporadic infection and not contagious to your other chickens. On the other hand your other birds also likely have the Marek's disease virus. Marek's disease virus causes multiple problems and immunosuppression is a major affect which might predispose to infections. The red tinge in the lungs were likely due to the congestion or hyperemia and is an incidental finding. The sinuses had also looked slightly darker on postmortem examination and again there is no respiratory disease on microscopy. Nevertheless listening to your message about the mild respiratory signs you are seeing in your birds, another lesion (ureteritis in addition to the chronic ongoing egg yolk peritonitis) made me suspicious of infectious bronchitis virus (IBV) infection and I submitted specimens to test for that.
I also got your message with regards to her nutritional condition; I had mentioned that she is in "very good body condition" on my preliminary report, which refers to her having a good amount of fat in her body. She had abundant fat stores in her abdomen, but there is no fatty change in the liver thus not a contributor to clinical disease. Avian influenza is not detected, a report to follow with the latest results.

Examined are sections of brain, peripheral nerves, heart, sinuses, trachea, air sacs, lung, liver, spleen, kidneys, ova, oviduct, feathered skin, adrenal gland, skeletal muscle, crop, pancreas and intestines.
The liver is diffusely congested and there are frequent fibrin lakes expanding/disrupting the parenchyma. There are fibrin depositions throughout the splenic parenchyma. Mild congestion in the lungs. There is mild to moderate pneumoconiosis. Egg yolk protein is arm pulmonary and air psychic ability multifocally. The air sac epithelium is cuboidal in couple of segments.
In the peripheral nerves multiple vessels are cuffed by one to two layers of lymphocytes. Thyroid is unremarkable. There are heterophils infiltrating the ovarian stroma focally extensively. Some fibrin is in a section of the ovary as well. Segmentally the intestinal serosa is expanded and obliterated by histiocytes, lymphocytes and plasma cells with proliferations and frequent brown tinged crystalline pigment and there are histiocytes engulfing egg yolk protein (chronic-ongoing egg yolk peritonitis). Kidneys are also overlain by abundant egg yolk protein. The ureters have peripheral lymphocytes.
There is abundant mucus in the sinuses with some red blood cells, minimal inflammatory infiltrates.

 

[Kiki]

Well, we have more preliminary information. First, @Texas Kiki, YES I am dismayed to say Margo had abundant fat stores. No more treats for my flock. However, there was no fatty change in the liver and therefore not a contributor to clinical disease. This does very much concern me for the rest of my flock.

The laboratory findings are BRUTAL:
Chronic ongoing egg yolk peritonitis and Marek's disease
– Liver extensive and spleen mild fibrin deposition
– Ovarian stroma fibrin deposition and heterophils
– Chronic ongoing moderate coelomitis with intralesional egg yolk protein – Multifocal mild to moderate perivascular lymphocytic peripheral neuritis - Lymphocytic periureteritis

7/5/2019: Mango seems to have had ongoing egg yolk peritonitis and there is evidence of Marek's disease on microscopy. The fibrin depositions in the liver and spleen are commonly associated with acute systemic infection, although we had no growth on lung and liver cultures thus the etiologic agent cannot be identified. Nevertheless it is likely a spontaneous and sporadic infection and not contagious to your other chickens. On the other hand your other birds also likely have the Marek's disease virus. Marek's disease virus causes multiple problems and immunosuppression is a major affect which might predispose to infections. The red tinge in the lungs were likely due to the congestion or hyperemia and is an incidental finding. The sinuses had also looked slightly darker on postmortem examination and again there is no respiratory disease on microscopy. Nevertheless listening to your message about the mild respiratory signs you are seeing in your birds, another lesion (ureteritis in addition to the chronic ongoing egg yolk peritonitis) made me suspicious of infectious bronchitis virus (IBV) infection and I submitted specimens to test for that.
I also got your message with regards to her nutritional condition; I had mentioned that she is in "very good body condition" on my preliminary report, which refers to her having a good amount of fat in her body. She had abundant fat stores in her abdomen, but there is no fatty change in the liver thus not a contributor to clinical disease. Avian influenza is not detected, a report to follow with the latest results.

Examined are sections of brain, peripheral nerves, heart, sinuses, trachea, air sacs, lung, liver, spleen, kidneys, ova, oviduct, feathered skin, adrenal gland, skeletal muscle, crop, pancreas and intestines.
The liver is diffusely congested and there are frequent fibrin lakes expanding/disrupting the parenchyma. There are fibrin depositions throughout the splenic parenchyma. Mild congestion in the lungs. There is mild to moderate pneumoconiosis. Egg yolk protein is arm pulmonary and air psychic ability multifocally. The air sac epithelium is cuboidal in couple of segments.
In the peripheral nerves multiple vessels are cuffed by one to two layers of lymphocytes. Thyroid is unremarkable. There are heterophils infiltrating the ovarian stroma focally extensively. Some fibrin is in a section of the ovary as well. Segmentally the intestinal serosa is expanded and obliterated by histiocytes, lymphocytes and plasma cells with proliferations and frequent brown tinged crystalline pigment and there are histiocytes engulfing egg yolk protein (chronic-ongoing egg yolk peritonitis). Kidneys are also overlain by abundant egg yolk protein. The ureters have peripheral lymphocytes.
There is abundant mucus in the sinuses with some red blood cells, minimal inflammatory infiltrates.

I'm glad you got an answer.

 

[AmyJane725]

Wow, that's pretty devastating. Are you ok?

 

[micstrachan]

Wow, that's pretty devastating. Are you ok?

I am VERY humbled by the news about the fat. I feel terrible... I thought I gave minimal treats. Enough on that. Treats are OVER.

I am shocked to read of the ongoing egg yolk peritonitis, because Margo was a very strong layer up until the very end.

As far as the Mareks, yep. Devastated. I should not have gotten chicks this year. I am thinking this might be what killed Happy Cheeks, as she was doing a weird stiff leg thing. I just didn’t think they could succumb so young. Thought there was an incubation period.

 

[Willowspirit]

Ah, well if your birds poop in his yard then I suppose it's fair. Maybe consider putting up a fence or something to keep the cats out/your birds in? We have no fences at my house either, but my birds live inside a large fully enclosed run because their mommy is extremely paranoid (and for good reason because the woods behind my house are crawling with predators besides just his cat)...

Yep. Same spelling. I told her that a lady on my chicken forum has a hen with the same name as her. She laughed. It's funny, when I was in elementary school we were reading a book about a girl who lived on Mars (or some other planet) and the sun only came out once a year, so it was a big deal. Anyway, the other kids all hated this girl and locked her in the closet when the sun came out and she missed it. Her name was Margot. I thought you pronounced the "t" though, and that it was some made up alien name since the story took place off of Earth. Little did I know it was just the French spelling.

Interestingly enough, my brother had botulism as a baby (he survived). I don't know if it's the same in chickens as in people, but not being able to swallow was his first symptom, and the paralysis came on pretty quickly after that. It was complete though. He was totally paralyzed (on life support) for 4 months.

I read that book! I think it was by Ray Bradbury and was called something like “All Summer in a Day.” Such a powerful story.

That’s so sad about your bro. Glad he survived it!