Adult ascarid or undigested earthworm?

[cottagecheese]

Everyone has their own style of medicating themselves and their pets/livestock and one size definitely does not fit all. The OP is specifically concerned about liver damage and is knowledgeable about milk thistle . Something that occurs to me about all those with ascites, usually ascites are blamed on 'reproductive problems' and that is probably the case most of the time, but what if some of those cases are actually liver failure? Something we'll never know because only a few are necropsied.
The mystery is not the albendazole dosage , it's the pyrantel dosage because the PoultryDVM doesn't give it http://www.poultrydvm.com/drugs/pyrantel , Plumb's wants a subscription and Dr Wissman is very vague. Still, we have the middle of Dr Wissman's range, we have casportpony's thread and we have the number the pigeon people agreed on.

 

[XanderWiFi]

Could ivermectin work? Read one or two eyedrops on their neck clears just about everything.

 

[dawg53]

Could ivermectin work? Read one or two eyedrops on their neck clears just about everything.

I stopped using Ivermectin and Eprinex on my birds years ago because it was ineffective killing large roundworms. Others I know have stopped using it as well. It is due to its overuse as a miteacide in poultry when its main purpose is supposed to be a wormer. Worms have built resistance to the product in poultry. It also stays in the chickens system for a longer period of time than benzimidazoles and Levamisole. Therefore a longer egg/meat withdrawal period.
Unfortunately mites are showing resistance to Ivermectin as well, according to Parasitpedia: Scroll down to "Efficacy of Ivermectin" (In poultry)
https://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2449&Itemid=2716

 

[dawg53]

Pyrantel Pamoate has its safety limits just like any other wormer, or any chemical for that matter.
https://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2694&Itemid=3025

 

[BugStalker]

@cottagecheese, thanks for the links! The best I had found was https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/does-anyone-use-worminator.587307/page-4#post-14422538 Do you happen to have a link for measuring a paste accurately? I haven't bought paste yet, just looking at what's available. I don't need much.

I hated using Safeguard. The side effects were horrible. (A 24-hour delusion a couple days after, many slow crops a week or so after, which lasted a couple days to a couple months, during which, at least, there were no eggs to withdraw, and rapid weight loss.) I would use it again if I was sure the liver could take it, or if it was the only treatment for the kind of parasite, or the bird didn't have time to work on its liver or get something else.

Valbazen was better, but still made them a little off.

I still am wary of levamisole. It seems hard to dose, and powerful.

I couldn't find enough information on pyrantal pamoate, before, but I plan to try it this time. Does anyone know if it is a problem for old birds? I am treating an Austrolorpe rooster around a decade old. I think he only had slow crop a couple days with one Safeguard treatment, and did ok with Valbazen.

 

[BugStalker]

Pyrantel Pamoate has its safety limits just like any other wormer, or any chemical for that matter.
https://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2694&Itemid=3025

As I understand it, it's as poisonous as any other wormer, only doesn't get absorbed by the animal as much, which is the reason for it being called safer.

 

[casportpony]

There is a Plumb's pdf here:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/plumbs-veterinary-drug-handbook-revision-6-free.1189785/

 

[BugStalker]

Everyone has their own style of medicating themselves and their pets/livestock and one size definitely does not fit all. The OP is specifically concerned about liver damage and is knowledgeable about milk thistle . Something that occurs to me about all those with ascites, usually ascites are blamed on 'reproductive problems' and that is probably the case most of the time, but what if some of those cases are actually liver failure? Something we'll never know because only a few are necropsied.
The mystery is not the albendazole dosage , it's the pyrantel dosage because the PoultryDVM doesn't give it http://www.poultrydvm.com/drugs/pyrantel , Plumb's wants a subscription and Dr Wissman is very vague. Still, we have the middle of Dr Wissman's range, we have casportpony's thread and we have the number the pigeon people agreed on.

I usually necropsy. That is how I found out about the liver problem.

 

[Kayla's Lunch]

This is all very interesting. Thanks for posting this thread.

 

[coach723]

Something that occurs to me about all those with ascites, usually ascites are blamed on 'reproductive problems' and that is probably the case most of the time, but what if some of those cases are actually liver failure? Something we'll never know because only a few are necropsied.

Ascites is a symptom of another condition. Many things can impact the liver negatively. Most posts ask if there is abdominal bloating which can be ascites, matter build up in the abdomen from infection/internal laying, or tumors/cysts. Once a bird is ill (usually gravely) the immune system is struggling already and things can snowball, often ascites will accompany other conditions due to stress on the circulatory system and liver. So if there is ascites then the liver is in trouble, but the reason for that trouble may be ultimately another cause rather than straight up liver failure with no other health problem. There are plenty of posts of birds that also presented with ascites and necropsy shows loads of visceral fat and a very unhealthy, friable liver and sometimes large clots of blood from fatty liver hemorrhagic disease. So the underlying cause of ascites can be varied, and it's often very difficult to put an enormous amount of information in a relatively short post on this forum. I would suspect that if a bird is/was having difficulty with a wormer medication affecting the liver that there was already another health issue that was negatively impacting the liver function, or the dosing was incorrect for the weight of the bird.
https://www.fresheggsdaily.com/2017/06/water-belly-or-ascites-in-backyard.html
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poul...itions-of-poultry/ascites-syndrome-in-poultry
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poul...f-fatty-liver-hemorrhagic-syndrome-in-poultry