Advice for adopted flock? (UPDATE) sick birds :(

[froggiesheins]

So I've had the new birds for about 2 weeks. After the first week, I separated new birds from old birds, but it seems it was too late. 2 of my original birds have become ill.

Bird #1 has a swollen face, floppy comb, and snot coming out of her beak. She sneezes a lot.
Bird #2 has labored breathing, droopy tail, pasty white and green diarrhea
Both bird are lethargic, not eating or drinking, and not laying.

On the advice of a vet, I have separated the sick birds in a warm area, and have been giving them antibiotics with an eye dropper. I've seen only minor improvement.

Any thoughts on what they might have? Could it be 2 different diseases? None of the new birds are sick.

 

When you have this many symptoms you cannot "RIDE IN OUT" they have to be treated with INJECTABLE medication. Because it could be a plain old respritory infection or CORYZA WHAT to give is the problem noiw. Resaerch coryza for the symptoms, if your birdies do not match the symptoms for that disease then start them on TYLAN50 @ 1cc once a cay for 4 days [Large Fowl dosage]. IF they show no improvement by day 3 of treatment, then you need to go to Oxytetracycline injectable...again 1cc once a day for 4 days. Try to get size 22 gauge or small needles as it is easier for you and birdie. I hope that helps....

 

[cowcreekgeek]

When you have this many symptoms you cannot "RIDE IN OUT" they have to be treated with INJECTABLE medication. Because it could be a plain old respritory infection or CORYZA WHAT to give is the problem noiw. Resaerch coryza for the symptoms, if your birdies do not match the symptoms for that disease then start them on TYLAN50 @ 1cc once a cay for 4 days [Large Fowl dosage]. IF they show no improvement by day 3 of treatment, then you need to go to Oxytetracycline injectable...again 1cc once a day for 4 days. Try to get size 22 gauge or small needles as it is easier for you and birdie. I hope that helps....

Good call, on the possibility of infectious coryza, but ... although Tylan 50 is a good, and relatively safe, antibiotic, tylosin aims mostly at gram-positive organisms (can't kill virii ~'-)

Also, it'd be best to make sure the other antibiotic they're on won't interfere/interact ...

One more thing: there's somethin' on youtube for just about anything ... here's a how-to video on injecting birds w/ Tylan 50 you could share w/ folks you suggest it to.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

So I've had the new birds for about 2 weeks. After the first week, I separated new birds from old birds, but it seems it was too late. 2 of my original birds have become ill.

Bird #1 has a swollen face, floppy comb, and snot coming out of her beak. She sneezes a lot.
Bird #2 has labored breathing, droopy tail, pasty white and green diarrhea
Both bird are lethargic, not eating or drinking, and not laying.

On the advice of a vet, I have separated the sick birds in a warm area, and have been giving them antibiotics with an eye dropper. I've seen only minor improvement.

Any thoughts on what they might have? Could it be 2 different diseases? None of the new birds are sick.

You're gonna wanna read through the Poultry Disease Diagnosis Based on Symptoms link in my signature, 'cause you're probably dealin' with multiple issues (often, flocks get one disease that spurs a number of other problems). All the other links down there open in a new window as well.

Immediately begin giving them an astringent solution of Apple Cider Vinegar, at the rate of 4 teaspoons for every gallon (but not in galvanized containers). The tannin in ACV reduces the viscosity of mucus, and helps to 'cut through' the coating in the mouth, throat and intestines. This will help 'em expel the mucus (and lots of organisms w/ it), and will also boost their immune systems, as in improves uptake of nutrients/vitamins and the medication(s) you are (and, probably will be) giving them.

Important: Do this for every bird you have, 'cause they're most probably already infected w/ whatever these birds have (and it could be more than one thing, or even two). For certain: This will not harm a single feather on *any* of your birds.

If the antibiotic you're currently giving is erythromycin or oxytetracycline (or, one of the newer fluoroquinolones or macrolides), then it may be helpful, as your bird(s) may have infectious coryza, or consider the possibility that this might be fowl cholera (which would require treatment w/ sulpha drugs, and antibiotic(s) effective against the gram-negative, bipolar P. multocida). <-- these details may be helpful, if discussed w/ your vet.

 

[delisha]

Quote: Some people do not want to treat and keep birds that are riddled with disease. Giving drugs willy nilly can cause more problems and stress to the owner and the birds. Chicken keepers usually want healthy birds, not birds that have weakened immune systems. And at every drop of a hat you have to be treating for this and that for the rest of the life of the birds. It is an expensive venture that can last years.. The cycle never stops. People usually purchase birds for eggs and meat. Having a flock of diseased birds that you can do neither is a decision that has to be made. Telling someone they have to give injectable drugs to a chicken before they make a decision on what the intentions of the flock use is not always the best decision. Giving that option is a good thing as long as they have all the information that will happen after they start treatment. You can't eat a diseased bird. You can't eat an egg from a diseased bird. Those are the facts that should be included. Giving drugs does not make a bird disease free. We all want healthy birds free of disease.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Some people do not want to treat and keep birds that are riddled with disease. Giving drugs willy nilly can cause more problems and stress to the owner and the birds. Chicken keepers usually want healthy birds, not birds that have weakened immune systems. And at every drop of a hat you have to be treating for this and that for the rest of the life of the birds. It is an expensive venture that can last years.. The cycle never stops. People usually purchase birds for eggs and meat. Having a flock of diseased birds that you can do neither is a decision that has to be made. Telling someone they have to give injectable drugs to a chicken before they make a decision on what the intentions of the flock use is not always the best decision. Giving that option is a good thing as long as they have all the information that will happen after they start treatment. You can't eat a diseased bird. You can't eat an egg from a diseased bird. Those are the facts that should be included. Giving drugs does not make a bird disease free. We all want healthy birds free of disease.

Good point, in regard to options ... there are many, in some situations. However, there are some situations in which there just ain't so many effective treatments (and, of course, a few diseases for which there is no known treatment). And, although I'm a big fan of natural remedies, but when imply that the use of any chemical compounds and/or antibiotics automatically creates a flock from which neither meat not egg should be eaten, and directly state, "Giving drugs does not make a bird disease free," is pushing the pendulum completely to the other extreme, in regard to options ...

The one starting this thread, to whom I apologize for what may seem to be off-topic discussion, has already disclosed that antibiotics are being administered upon the advice of a Vet, and this infection is most probably some form of relatively severe infection for which all birds will require some form of bacteriostatic effect in order for the to ever be completely free of the organisms (without which would most probably cause any untreated birds forever infected/affected by them to some degree).

There are many treatments from either side of the debate that actually should satify the needs of both. Ampolium, for example, is a coccidiostat that allow those using it to still claim their birds to be antibiotic free ... although I'm uncertain as to whether the Tylan 50 would benefit these birds, it is tylosin, which is a microlide and a coccidiostat, and although considered an antibiotic? It is found naturally as a fermentation product of Streptomyces fradiae.[reference] Just because somethin' is natural doesn't make it absolutely good for living creatures, and not all medicines are absolutely bad.

 

[froggiesheins]

Ya'all are duking it out and the original poster has not even responded to one post.....I am outta here..................

 

[BroosterSpringsteen]

I really appreciate all the input. It is a tough decision. I would of course prefer to have a completely disease-free flock, and to be able to continue to share and hatch eggs. But I understand they are now contaminated. My flock is small, and I hatched most of the birds myself. It would be emotionally difficult to eradicate my entire flock. The kids and I are really attached to some of the birds. So I think I'm going to continue to treat them and hope they recover, with the understanding they are under permanent quarantine. If I lose one of the birds, I'll probably have a necropsy done at the local Ag Center lab, to answer any questions.

The vet who advised me isn't sure what they have. He suggested erthromycin, and they seem to be responding, although not dramatically. I'll try the apple cider vinegar too. Interestingly, the new birds have improved a whole lot since I got them. They already seem way more active, and even their feathers look shinier.

Out of curiosity, at this point, is my coop also contaminated? If I had all new birds, would they still be in danger, assuming I disinfected all surfaces, feeding and watering vessels? Or is the problem only with the diseased birds? Again, I'm not planning to get rid of my birds. I'm just wondering.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

I really appreciate all the input. It is a tough decision. I would of course prefer to have a completely disease-free flock, and to be able to continue to share and hatch eggs. But I understand they are now contaminated. My flock is small, and I hatched most of the birds myself. It would be emotionally difficult to eradicate my entire flock. The kids and I are really attached to some of the birds. So I think I'm going to continue to treat them and hope they recover, with the understanding they are under permanent quarantine. If I lose one of the birds, I'll probably have a necropsy done at the local Ag Center lab, to answer any questions.

The vet who advised me isn't sure what they have. He suggested erthromycin, and they seem to be responding, although not dramatically. I'll try the apple cider vinegar too. Interestingly, the new birds have improved a whole lot since I got them. They already seem way more active, and even their feathers look shinier.

Out of curiosity, at this point, is my coop also contaminated? If I had all new birds, would they still be in danger, assuming I disinfected all surfaces, feeding and watering vessels? Or is the problem only with the diseased birds? Again, I'm not planning to get rid of my birds. I'm just wondering.

Well, if they're responding even moderately well to the erthromycin, then that gives you a list of possible infections (by determining which organisms this antibiotic is effective against), which can then help you to identify the specific one (or, at least, a much shorter list of possibilities).

I'll admit that a cold restart would be worthy of consideration, if only logic were to be applied. And, yes, the existing equipment/facilities could be sufficiently disinfected. But, I don't personally view the meat or the eggs they would later produce as forever tainted (after withdrawal for the appropriate times from medications). There are examples of where the use of antibiotics on chickens results in resistant strains of bacteria that can then be transferred to human, which is another cause for concern, especially when you have children. I don't envy you the decision, either way.

Here's a link worth lookin' over, in this regard: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC86602/

Later, I can look up that other information which might serve to pinpoint what you're dealin' w/ here, if you'd like ... just postin' quickly, before headin' back outside to work a bit more ~'-)

 

[delisha]

If your birds are responding that is a sign of your healthy flock management. Healthier flocks fight diseases and your feeding the FF to the new birds are rallying them around. Your decisions has to be based on what your flock has contracted. Until you know what that is... you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Your family comes first in protection. I would have a hard time myself culling an entire flock of chicks I hand raised. It sounds like they are coming along nicely. I would bet it is from your animal husbandry and health of the flock making that a possibility. Keep doing what you are doing.

 

[BroosterSpringsteen]

Thank you

It is a least gratifying to see I'm giving these new chickens a better life.

I took the advice about the apple cider vinegar. The chickens in the coop are lapping it up, but the sick hens aren't drinking at all. I've been giving them the medicine with an eye dropper, but do you think I should be giving them more water that way too? One is improving more quickly then the other, but it doesn't appear either of them is eating or drinking very much.

Interestingly, I'm very allergic to all antibiotics that end in -mycin. So I've been handling it with care. I wear gloves when I'm mixing the medicine or treating them. So eating the eggs is definitely out of the question until well after the medicine is no longer being administered. The vet seemed to think the eggs would be fine to consume once the birds are 100% recovered, and the medicine is out of their system.

I know the farmer I got the hens from gave away lots (like dozens) of other chickens to other folks. I tried contacting her to tell her my chickens had fallen ill, but she hasn't responded.