advice for buying breeding stock at shows

[Katy]

Quote:
No, I don't think a breeder who shows is always more educated or serious about their birds nor are their birds always better quality than someone who doesn't show.

Am I willing to pay a premium price for their birds or hatching eggs? Yes, most of the time I am, but with that said if I find someone who has never shown but who has good quality birds I'll pay them the same price for their birds.

The price paid needs to reflect the quality of the birds....not how many shows they've been to and placed at.

I don't care if it's cattle, horses, dogs or poultry.....it should be about the animal's quality.....not the ribbons that they have or haven't won.

 

[cracked_egg]

I agree with you Katy that it is about the animal's quality... But in my experience (which is not with chickens, so maybe this is possible with chickens) that a program that does not consistently show (not has just started showing, or just goes to shows and is dead last, we have those in horses too, and I wouldnt buy from them either)... But the breeder who has been showing for at least 5 years and consistently winning or placing well, I find their quality is , as a whole, better than someone who doesn't show.... There is a woman who breeds a bunch of saddlebreds... She says she has all these great bloodlines, etc... She thinks her horses are great quality and she just can't afford to show them... They're a bunch of junk. Does she have a nice one in there somewhere maybe, would I still expect it to be cheap because it is unproven, yes! Especially in this economy... But that is a different deal, horses cost a lot of money to get from point A to show ring... And the horse industry is all I have to base it on.

I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm saying it is rare in horses and dogs, and as a newbie to chickens, I wouldn't trust my untrained eye to judge who has nice birds even if not showing...

 

[Mxmediamom]

Talk to a lot of people who are breeders. Get names from the SPPA, join them(dues are inexpensive). They have breeders lists of reputable breeders. The SPPA is one of the most valuable resources and connections. They should have a booth at the Ohio Nationals in Columbus in November.

 

[cracked_egg]

What is the SPPA? I've heard oof APA, ABA, but not SPPA. HY thanks!

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Quote:
http://poultryb.dot5hosting.com/sppapage.html

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The SPPA members are the gentlemen and women of poultry keeping. They are unceasingly generous with their time and always willing to share their knowledge. Everyone with an interest in chickens will benefit by joining SPPA.

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[FourPawz]

Quote:
Absolutely the best quote of the thread. It takes generations to set type. If you have a female from a proven line, she will pass on those qualities. A superior animal with mediocre ancestors will breed true to those ancestors, not to his or her own type.

 

[FourPawz]

Quote:
If the judges are judging to what the APA standard says then we should be able to know whether ours measure up or not whether we can attend shows or not. I realize that what the standard says is open to each individual judges perception, but when it gets down to it if they're judging by the standard it shouldn't differ very much.

A couple of points, at least as far as dogs go, and I'll bet dollars to doughnuts it applies to chickens. When you exhibit to an experienced judge of your breed, you are paying for an objective, very experienced individual to place your exhibits with regard to the standard and to the quality of the other animals in the class.

You mention that if judges judge to the given standard, then owners can also know if their animals measure up to that standard. Most people are not born with the "eye" to judge animals. Rarely, you find a person with a natural eye, usually an artistic person. It takes much study and it takes seeing numbers of the breed. It also takes seeing a given number of superior animals in the flesh, so the judge gets that breed's type cemented in his or her mind. I've had more than a couple of proud dog owners show me their beloved pet and announce "he's just like the dog that won Westminster". Needless to say, every pet owner who has made that comment to me has had beautiful, pet quality animals. Loving, smart, yes. BIS at Westminster? Not on this planet.

This is not to say a lay person cannot have better than average birds. People who study and who seek out good breeders from which to buy will have birds that make others stop in their tracks. However, to get the absolute, top of the breed, it takes exhibiting the best animals to experienced, top drawer judges.

 

[redhen]

Objective judges... Thats a good one!

 

[FourPawz]

Quote:
Now now. They're out there. Of course, human nature being what it is, there are the top percentage of the judges in a given breed of animal; and then there are, um, the rest

 

[cracked_egg]

Fourpawz, you get where I'm coming from, and saying it way better!

Do you have GSDs? I just got a well bred pup that I'm so excited about!!! I used to breed poodles (my mother bred akitas) and my foundation "female"'s pedigree only had two dogs in 4 generations that weren't champions. I worked for Dassin Farms for years, during the "Reignon Dassin Alexandra" rein... And this new pup is like "whose who" as far as breeding goes. I guess that is what I'm looking for in chickens. All my colts are by World champion sires, and my mares are well connected also, that is just the kind of breeder I am.