Aggressive mating behaviour: a recent review of the literature

[angc11]

thanks for that contribution; it does indeed sound similar.

Given the focus in the original article on breeds (production v heritage), can I ask what breeds you have?

Oh yes they're all mixes of various heritage breeds. Their possible parents are Ameraucanas, Cochins, Salmon faverolles, Sebrights, d'Uccles, Silkies, Polish and maybe more.

For the cockerels in question, I do believe the alpha might be a Salmon faverolles x Ameraucana cross and the submissive is a barred Cochin crossed with something that gives him a crest. they're the two in my avatar.

 

[Perris]

further to https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...eview-of-the-literature.1681045/post-28945234 they have all been behaving normally, hanging around together, no fights, flights etc seen (though I have not had eyes on them 24/7) and certainly none have war wounds or even feathers out of place, but tonight K was last to bed.

Historically (i.e. since becoming the dominant a bit over 2 years ago) he has been one of the first of the flock to roost, and the lowest ranking cockerels are always last. Tonight K was last to roost, and was looking carefully into each of the 4 coops before deciding which one to enter. I shut 3 doors and he went willingly in with 2 cockerels and another roo, not sure who, but not H I think (plus a hen or two).

I take this as another (peaceful) sign that K's been deposed as dom and has accepted a subordinate place. He is not being chased away, to the edge of the flock, as his 2 predecessors were. Yet, at least.

 

[Shadrach]

This is getting like the egg song.
Roosters don't dance.

This may be just a difference of time frames. Agreed the wing drop rarely immediately precedes mating,

Right on cue, yesterday afternoon I saw Hensol (son, 1 year 4 months old) do it to Killay (sire, nominal flock dominant, 3 years 5 months old). They were not fighting or flighting. K just dodged H exactly as a hen might, and H just tried again exactly as a roo does.

So the wing drop on that occasion clearly was not courtship behaviour.

An extract from my rooster article.

"The Herding Shuffle.
Roosters herd their hens. I’ve had countless hours of amusement watching a tribes’ rooster try and move his hens in a group from point A to point B. A few years ago the best show in town was Major trying to get Fat Bird to the coop at roost time. The pair would set off from the car parking area up the track to the top of the sheep field. They looked like any ordinary couple out for an evening stroll. They would progress a few meters and then Fat Bird would suddenly veer off course to investigate a promising-looking patch of grass on the bank for bugs. Major would have marched on another couple of meters before he noticed Fat Bird was no longer following. He would stop and turn to watch Fat Bird. You could almost see him tapping afoot with impatience. Fat Bird would be oblivious, head buried in the grass, just an oversized bum on view. Major, running out of patience would walk back to Fat Bird and do the leg kicking herding move and Fat Bird would reluctantly make forward motion. Some evenings this performance would take 10 minutes to cover the 50 meters of track. The track isn’t the safest place to dawdle; there isn’t any easy cover and any chicken is in plain view from the vantage points in the woods leading to the West Ridge. I often imagined Major asking Fat Bird when they finally got onto the roost in the tribe coop if she had to eat everything on the track before going to bed.

Moving a group of hens is liable to have a rooster tearing his feathers out. The rooster gets a few to a point of safety only to hear one of his hens who has disappeared into a patch of undergrowth and lost sight of the rest of the tribe giving the escort call and looking most upset that she’s been deserted. Back the rooster goes to pick up the straggler and with a few herding shuffles and kicks the pair move off to join the rest of the tribe. Of course, by the time the pair return another hen has wandered off and the whole performance gets repeated. You can almost see the sigh of relief from the rooster when he finally gets all his hens closely grouped at the chosen safe destination point.

The body language that so often gets called the mating dance (rooster hopping around the subject kicking his offside leg out) has absolutely nothing to do with mating; It’s a herding and possession movement. Roosters will use this movement on other roosters in their tribe and move hens from other tribes back to their rooster and tribe. They use it to get hens out of dust baths and places the rooster considers unsafe. They will also use it on humans if that human is viewed as a flock member and this is often mistaken as aggression."

So now you've seen a rooster do this movement to another rooster. This alone pretty much rules out any connection with mating unless of course the rooster in this instance likes males as well as females. I dare say it happens.
The discussion also illustrates one of the problems with summarized studies and often the studies themselves.

 

[Shadrach]

I am really enjoying this thread!! I thought I would chime in with my VERY limited experience and observations with what I like to call my "Lord of the Flies" flock (they're all the same age (9 months old) and have grown up their whole lives without older hens/roosters. They have been free ranging since they were 3 months old).

I have two roosters in my flock of 19, one is the dominant flock master, the other is very submissive but has made a few surprising and bizarre attempts to overthrow the alpha with very little success. Most of the time sub just runs away from alpha.

@Perris I do believe I have observed the similar kinds of wing dancing to what you're describing with Hensol and Killay. Particularly, I have seen specific cases where a hen will call out for a rooster to come and fetch her either after she's laid an egg or gotten lost from the flock somehow. Both roosters will take off running toward her, but alpha will actually stop and wing dance around submissive roo. Submissive will dodge him just like a hen would when wing danced at and will stop running toward the hen in need. The alpha will then go and collect the hen (funny enough he wing dances at her as well to herd her back) while submissive boy goes back to the flock. There's never a fight (at least that i've witnessed). I always read those interactions as alpha telling submissive that he's the boss around here and submissive mostly obliges without a fight.

So as far as I've observed, I think you may be onto something where the wing dance is actually to "encourage submission without a fight". That's mostly how I've observed my alpha using it with the submissive cock and with the hens.

It can seem a bit bossy but there is no aggressive intent. I've watched these interactions so many times and no violence ensued.

 

[Perris]

This is getting like the egg song.
Roosters don't dance.




An extract from my rooster article.

"The Herding Shuffle.
Roosters herd their hens. I’ve had countless hours of amusement watching a tribes’ rooster try and move his hens in a group from point A to point B. A few years ago the best show in town was Major trying to get Fat Bird to the coop at roost time. The pair would set off from the car parking area up the track to the top of the sheep field. They looked like any ordinary couple out for an evening stroll. They would progress a few meters and then Fat Bird would suddenly veer off course to investigate a promising-looking patch of grass on the bank for bugs. Major would have marched on another couple of meters before he noticed Fat Bird was no longer following. He would stop and turn to watch Fat Bird. You could almost see him tapping afoot with impatience. Fat Bird would be oblivious, head buried in the grass, just an oversized bum on view. Major, running out of patience would walk back to Fat Bird and do the leg kicking herding move and Fat Bird would reluctantly make forward motion. Some evenings this performance would take 10 minutes to cover the 50 meters of track. The track isn’t the safest place to dawdle; there isn’t any easy cover and any chicken is in plain view from the vantage points in the woods leading to the West Ridge. I often imagined Major asking Fat Bird when they finally got onto the roost in the tribe coop if she had to eat everything on the track before going to bed.

Moving a group of hens is liable to have a rooster tearing his feathers out. The rooster gets a few to a point of safety only to hear one of his hens who has disappeared into a patch of undergrowth and lost sight of the rest of the tribe giving the escort call and looking most upset that she’s been deserted. Back the rooster goes to pick up the straggler and with a few herding shuffles and kicks the pair move off to join the rest of the tribe. Of course, by the time the pair return another hen has wandered off and the whole performance gets repeated. You can almost see the sigh of relief from the rooster when he finally gets all his hens closely grouped at the chosen safe destination point.

The body language that so often gets called the mating dance (rooster hopping around the subject kicking his offside leg out) has absolutely nothing to do with mating; It’s a herding and possession movement. Roosters will use this movement on other roosters in their tribe and move hens from other tribes back to their rooster and tribe. They use it to get hens out of dust baths and places the rooster considers unsafe. They will also use it on humans if that human is viewed as a flock member and this is often mistaken as aggression."

So now you've seen a rooster do this movement to another rooster. This alone pretty much rules out any connection with mating unless of course the rooster in this instance likes males as well as females. I dare say it happens.
The discussion also illustrates one of the problems with summarized studies and often the studies themselves.

I don't think herding is the right term for it. There is just so much movement that goes on here without any wing drop. I think it's a display of superiority/ dominance.

 

[Shadrach]

I don't think herding is the right term for it. There is just so much movement that goes on here without any wing drop. I think it's a display of superiority/ dominance.

Herding is a form of dominance if one has to reduce other creatures often subtle behaviours to sex and violence.

I prefer to view it as you're one of us in some instances and you're not one of us in others. As always context is important.

 

[Shadrach]

I don't think herding is the right term for it. There is just so much movement that goes on here without any wing drop. I think it's a display of superiority/ dominance.

I think the wing drop is about keeping balance rather than a display.

 

[RoyalChick]

I think the wing drop is about keeping balance rather than a display.

Well my Mr. Chips tried it today. Whatever it was for, it didn’t work. We all ignored him. Poor lad.
He is now routinely calling everyone to come get the blueberries he finds in my hand and he also routinely gives a few away while eating the majority himself.
He doesn’t seem bothered if I feed a few directly to the ladies.
But this is the face I have to deal with when the carton is empty.

 

[Smokerbill]

I've been following along here to learn what I can and don't really have anything specific to contribute to the topic. But I watched a Netflix show last night about the complex mating rituals of Birds of Paradise. It's pretty crazy what the male birds do to entice a mate.

It made me wonder if wild jungle fowl have more complex mating rituals than domestic roosters, and if so have they been bred out of domestic fowl on purpose?

 

[Perris]

It made me wonder if wild jungle fowl have more complex mating rituals than domestic roosters, and if so have they been bred out of domestic fowl on purpose?

the article which prompted this thread and is cited in #1 suggests it has inadvertently been bred out of production breeds, and that heritage breeds may still do it. Replies are sharing experiences of BYC members. Whether or not it is about mating, or herding, or dominance are moot issues it appears.

I don't think it's about anything as prosaic as balance. Display is normal and common behaviour in ornithology, especially among the non-passerines (not-songbirds). Decoding the message is the task.