air tight flying?

Discussion in 'Incubating & Hatching Eggs' started by rocketdog312, Jan 10, 2010.

  1. rocketdog312

    rocketdog312 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    has anyone ever tried putting eggs into an airtight container with eggs in it and then airmailed them? wouldn't that stop the air cells from being distended during shipping?
     
  2. Ban seabhag

    Ban seabhag Chillin' With My Peeps

    Nov 28, 2009
    Glenn HWY Alaska
    Wouldn't they need air? That's the concern I would have.
     
  3. Paganbird

    Paganbird CrescentWood Farm

    Apr 25, 2009
    Western Pa
    As long as it's not for a long time, I've heard that keeping eggs airtight (ie: packed in a sandwich baggie for shipping) is just fine & can help keep the egg from drying out.
     
  4. lemurchaser

    lemurchaser Chillin' With My Peeps

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    No the air cells would still be distended. The only way to avoid it would be to seal them in a vacuum...

    An air tight package is still full of air and the changes in pressure will allow that air to expand. And being air tight it could cause more damage to the eggs. Its the fact that the air can't escape the egg fast enough to deal with the decreased air pressure (which makes the air cell expand). If it was in a vacuum, the air pressure wouldn't change (because there is no air) so the inner pressures would be constant.
     
  5. Ban seabhag

    Ban seabhag Chillin' With My Peeps

    Nov 28, 2009
    Glenn HWY Alaska
    Okay, that makes sense.
     
  6. Intheswamp

    Intheswamp Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:Hmmm....this is hurting my head...I guess it's because it's making me think. [​IMG]

    I'm probably missing something here, but it seems to me that the only way air pressure inside of an air-tight container can change is if the outside air pressure is so much greater or so much less that it causes the container itself to distort physically by compression or expansion. This would either increase or decrease the inside dimensions of the container making more(lower pressure) or less(higher pressure) room for the contained air....to the point where the container either collapsed upon itself or exploded.

    A rigid container designed for specific positive or negative pressures would hold a steady air pressure inside of it (think about the space shuttle, space station, air planes, etc.,.) A vacuum does have air pressure, it is just simply negative air pressure. Putting an egg into a vacuum would cause the basically zero air pressure within the egg to escape to the outside of the egg in search of the lower pressure area...if the vacuum is created gradually the air would probaby escape from the egg through the pores of the shell...if the vacuum is applied rapidly it seems the egg could possibly explode. Putting an egg in a vacuum would be much like putting them into an un-pressurized compartment on an airplane.

    It actually seems that you would want to do the opposite...put them under positive air pressure to counter the lower air pressure of high altitude flying.

    For an interesting experiment take an egg to your local highschool and ask the science instructor if you could use their bell jar for a few minutes. [​IMG]

    Of course, I may have completely missed the mark on all of this so if I'm wrong *please* forgive the error and feel free to correct my feeble thinking. [​IMG]

    Best wishes,
    Ed
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2010
  7. lemurchaser

    lemurchaser Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I know, I keep going in circles in this one.

    But the problem with flying is the air itself is thinner, so it would expand inside the package. I think of driving from sea level to 10,000 feet for skiing, the bag of sealed potato chips was about ready to pop. I guess if the box was truly not deformable in anyway, it might be okay... but our nalgene bottles would pressurize going to altitude...

    I'd need to review how air pressure really works to really get a good answer. [​IMG]

    With the vacuum, I was thinking of sealing them inside of a chamber in a vacuum. Like inside a thermos, theoretically. Because yeah, an egg in a vacuum would be a huge mess!
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2010
  8. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner True BYC Addict

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    From my high school and college physics classes, I tend to agree with Intheswamp. If the package is rigid under the pressure differential and truly air tight, the pressure would remain the same on the egg. If the package leaks or distends, then the pressure would change on and in the egg itself. I'm sure you would not want to package it in a vacuum, just a rigid air tight container, like a vacuum bottle sealed in regular atmosphere.

    I'm not going to talk about whether or not an egg needs an exchange of air before it starts to incubate. I don't know enough about that to offer any kind of opinion except a bad opinion. There is also the question of just how cold it gets in the airplane hold. I'd think flying hatching eggs in a cargo hold is not the best of all worlds if other options are available.
     
  9. Ban seabhag

    Ban seabhag Chillin' With My Peeps

    Nov 28, 2009
    Glenn HWY Alaska
    Alright the fog is clearing. An airtight box would work like a pressure suit then, to counter the outside pressure?
     
  10. lemurchaser

    lemurchaser Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Corvallis, OR
    Okay, after some serious thinking, I've changed my mind.

    An air-tight, sealed, and completely rigid container would prevent pressure changes.
    An air-tight non-rigid container would NOT protect from pressure changes.

    Pressure changes are only part of the problem with shipped eggs though. They are also subjected to various temperatures, and vibrations.

    It would be interesting to put them in an air tight thermos and ship them to see what happens. Ideally it seems, they 'd be shipped with the eggs kept vertical (big ends up), to prevent all the trauma to the air cells.

    We should do an experiment! [​IMG] Ship eggs vertically in a thermos, with signs that say "This way up" to try and keep them properly oriented as much as possible. Then at the same time, ship a control group would be sent the usual way (bubble wrapped on their sides). Both sets would need to be hatched in the same incubator at the same time, to control for incubation variation.

    I'll volunteer to be the hatcher/reciever... [​IMG]
     

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