Alternative Protein (animal scraps)?

[U_Stormcrow]

Note to self. Come back and comment on this thread. After work. Out of lunch time

 

[MarketGardener]

Note to self. Come back and comment on this thread. After work. Out of lunch time

Interested in the reply lol as if animal protein is enough I have bins full of it , on my human diet my meat amino acid on calculator fills every bar full but when I do vegiterian diet I can’t get anywhere near the amino acid without eating a truck ton and overdoing other stuff
We have left over meat , we butcher cows , we hunt rabbit on farms and my scraps go in the bin or to the dog
I am struggling to find a corn and soy free food or replicate one , I need no corn as my breed is recommended not to feed corn or high fat treats , and soy well there is so much on it bad and I also have a sensitivity to it so I don’t want it in their diet I can only get gm anyway ,

When I move I can grow move and field feed them but atm wee in backyard pen so need a better diet alfalfa is a legume with methionine and I have fields of that also as well as peas so I feel half way there if they can be fed on mainly meat and get most their nutrition I can do that … I don’t neeed them on a veg diet if they don’t need it

Rabbit is also low fat which my breed needs
Isn’t fish to salty? I can get salmon and haddock heads n skins by the tub wash boil and bbq too dry got a meal if scales ain’t a problem lol I do this for my garden currently guess salt didn’t kill the plants lol

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Interested in the reply lol as if animal protein is enough I have bins full of it , on my human diet my meat amino acid on calculator fills every bar full but when I do vegiterian diet I can’t get anywhere near the amino acid without eating a truck ton and overdoing other stuff
We have left over meat , we butcher cows , we hunt rabbit on farms and my scraps go in the bin or to the dog
I am struggling to find a corn and soy free food or replicate one , I need no corn as my breed is recommended not to feed corn or high fat treats , and soy well there is so much on it bad and I also have a sensitivity to it so I don’t want it in their diet I can only get gm anyway ,

When I move I can grow move and field feed them but atm wee in backyard pen so need a better diet alfalfa is a legume with methionine and I have fields of that also as well as peas so I feel half way there if they can be fed on mainly meat and get most their nutrition I can do that … I don’t neeed them on a veg diet if they don’t need it

Rabbit is also low fat which my breed needs
Isn’t fish to salty? I can get salmon and haddock heads n skins by the tub wash boil and bbq too dry got a meal if scales ain’t a problem lol I do this for my garden currently guess salt didn’t kill the plants lol

OK, getting back to this.

Many old recipes (40s, 50s, 60s) called for "meat and bone scrap", which is not what most people first think of when those words come to mind. Its a term of art, and an ingredient no longer allowed in chicken feeds, here in the US. However, if you read "porcine blood meal" (dried pigs blood) on a feed label, you are much closer. The FDA's objection wasn't to meat and blood meal as a concept, but rather to its ambiguity.

As a term of art, it refers to the product produced when trimmings from farm operations and butcherings (such as yours) are taken together, cooked to separate off the vast majority of the fats (which were then used for other purposes), the remaining protein (and some small amount of bone/cartilage and connective tissues) were then dried and ground into a sort of meat floss, or powder for storage.

When you take a chunk of meat off an animal and buy it at the store, it may be advertised as 80/20, meaning at least 80% protein, not more than 20% fat - but that's really 80/20 of the dry matter. That chunk of meat is likely 75% water (or more) unless its been dry aged and trimmed. Meaning around 16% protein, 4% fat as percentage of total weight (excluding bone).

For comparison, "meat and bone meal" was generally assumed to be around 55% protein, 10% calcium (on average) as percentage of total weight. Like feeding your birds beef jerky scraps (without theinsane amount of salt, of course).

So yes, you can absolutely feed your birds your trimmings/let them clean the bones of animals you've put to slaughter. Mine get to clean my goats, and get some of the organ meats from their flock mates when I butcher those. But if you are using fresh trimmings, you need to use them at a rate 4-5x the amounts seen in those old recipes to account for all the water in the fresh trimings, compared to the dried "meat and bone scraps". You are also providing far more fat, which brings considerations of its own - cutting corn out (or siginificantly reducing) to compensate for the higher fat intake is a good start on adjusting.

and yes, animal proteins, unlike most veg proteins, are a very good Met source.

Hope that helps!

 

[MarketGardener]

OK, getting back to this.

Many old recipes (40s, 50s, 60s) called for "meat and bone scrap", which is not what most people first think of when those words come to mind. Its a term of art, and an ingredient no longer allowed in chicken feeds, here in the US. However, if you read "porcine blood meal" (dried pigs blood) on a feed label, you are much closer. The FDA's objection wasn't to meat and blood meal as a concept, but rather to its ambiguity.

As a term of art, it refers to the product produced when trimmings from farm operations and butcherings (such as yours) are taken together, cooked to separate off the vast majority of the fats (which were then used for other purposes), the remaining protein (and some small amount of bone/cartilage and connective tissues) were then dried and ground into a sort of meat floss, or powder for storage.

When you take a chunk of meat off an animal and buy it at the store, it may be advertised as 80/20, meaning at least 80% protein, not more than 20% fat - but that's really 80/20 of the dry matter. That chunk of meat is likely 75% water (or more) unless its been dry aged and trimmed. Meaning around 16% protein, 4% fat as percentage of total weight (excluding bone).

For comparison, "meat and bone meal" was generally assumed to be around 55% protein, 10% calcium (on average) as percentage of total weight. Like feeding your birds beef jerky scraps (without theinsane amount of salt, of course).

So yes, you can absolutely feed your birds your trimmings/let them clean the bones of animals you've put to slaughter. Mine get to clean my goats, and get some of the organ meats from their flock mates when I butcher those. But if you are using fresh trimmings, you need to use them at a rate 4-5x the amounts seen in those old recipes to account for all the water in the fresh trimings, compared to the dried "meat and bone scraps". You are also providing far more fat, which brings considerations of its own - cutting corn out (or siginificantly reducing) to compensate for the higher fat intake is a good start on adjusting.

and yes, animal proteins, unlike most veg proteins, are a very good Met source.

Hope that helps!

Wow that’s really enlightening, so pretty much like the road kill guy leaving them to eat as much as they want off the carcasses and removing at night would let them eat as much as they want or can would let them give enough , if they clean it all up they prob want more eh,

So really if we have a supply of meat for them we don’t as such need a grain based diet ? Or be as fuSsed about the feed ammount ?

I asked our uk food supplier for ratios he was worried I would steal their list pfft.. but told me their feed is made to 16% and they advise against feeding any extra meat or other bits scraps etc as it will upset the ratio they calculate to be complete,,, I wanted to boost it to the 20% but they won’t supply me the means to calculate it or help calculate it ,

So if they got carcasses daily and had access to alfalfa straw soaked/fermented would they really require I buy a feed ? Or could I now make a more than adequate feed easily and simply at home knowing most amino acids are already in their diet it would be more of a treat and scratch for vitamins?

So my breed Cornish game all his references over time age old clubs the lot state don’t feed corn as it effects his eyes pattern and feathers , it also makes him put too much weight on from the corn, so they say keep him on low fat and high protein , he’s a Cornish game Indian game whatever ya wana cal him from a registered blood line he’s a beaut , rabbit is one of the leanest meats there is and high grass fed protein full of minerals so sounding perfect

 

[MarketGardener]

so tested the contentness and feed wise, i put the grain down , and threw in 6 chicken breasts spare, cooked they ate it like a marathon, left LOADS! unlike when they get bits n bobs and now first time there not pecking each other ... all day they been chillin up at the coop havin the odd scratch and bath but there all....calm.... what the hell
previous to this i can hear the egg chirping so i was worrying as other hens are scavenging and attacking each others heads to get nothing ''being bitchy'' pekcing order rankin lol my lil hen is boss lol, i fed the protein to try calm the flock and well they aint eating grains atm there full and happy? how do you know if thye get toomuch protein can that be a problem? or is it pretty self regulating with them feeding on real proteins?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Yes, more animal protein means less plant proteins needed to meet their nutritional needs. No, chickens are not by design carnivores, I don't know (and am aware of no study suggesting) that they can be successful on a pure animal protein diet. For a number of reasons, I suspect the answer is a strong "no" - but those are suspicions and inferences, not knowledge.

Yes, there have been studies suggesting very high protein diets are associated with some negative health outcomes - protein amounts you would never reach with a conventional chicken diet, and which are not cost effective in any case. Where, exactly, that line is is a little uncertain - likely in excess of 40% CP - but again, not well studied, not studied at all with an essentially pure animal protein diet.

I would anticipate liver and kidney problems primarily, urolithiasis, "gout", and absolutely wrecking their intestinal biome, which is a key component of a chicken's immune system. But just guessing.

 

[MarketGardener]

Ok so normal morning,
Open door game cock runs at my legs black comb wings down then charges each lady out o to a high point as he tries to service each one some remain and wait for him to calm down , then he calls them to the food and comb goes red he turns into a sweetheart and wants cuddles the rest of the day , girls peck and squabble every now and then “pecking order “ not aggression “Oi that’s mine” attitude, they stand at the gate most the day even if layers are full in the bowl , if I go in they all try to escape , all day we have 2 that find a way out and get high fly over or squeeze thru and walk in the house ,
After the meat feed yesterday I opened the door and they was all down off the pirches sat on the floor in their chill zone area under the other coop, they came out drank water cock was calm didn’t charge they said hello and went back chillin,
I LEFT the gate open OPEN , no one tried to get out they wandererd round me and went back to chill … no squabbbles no clucking repetedky and singing songs loud and crazily , there … chilled .. even said where the hells the chickens lol there just sat scratching n chirping happy n quiet and content still ,,, wtf

I am happy as we had an egg hatch today and there not even bothered to go look, we had 5 eggs 2 was eaten by other chickens and since meat feeding they haven’t gone looking for eggs today there not eating them wtf we had 4eggs outa 15go missing n mess with chickens yolky headed haha we had to be quick collecting

 

[DemeterAD9]

Tried a few more alternate proteins since my last post. Their reactions were different each time. Steamed suckers (aka carp) were kinda meh. They ate some but left most. Trapped a healthy coon and after trimming the fat I threw it in the crock pot till it was falling off the bone. That was a bit more appreciate but it took a while for them to eat it all. The most recent trial was venison.

Took advantage of working on a dairy farm to get permission for hunting their fields. They wanted does shot so that's what I did. Quickest 20min hunt I ever had. A young adult doe, my unprofessional guess is about 2-3yrs old. There is such a huge difference in body condition between an early and late season doe. She was pretty lean, probably from nursing fawns all summer. Got about 46lbs of meat for the fam.
*content warning, bloody dead deer*

Spoiler: Early doe season success

After deboning and taking all I could I threw the ribcage in the run. They loved it! It has been pretty well picked clean. They'll get the carcasses from now on.

 

[bearcreekbees]

I would avoid any meat around the point of impact if there is any possibility of lead contamination. Birds (all kinds) are extremely sensitive to lead poisoning and it can be fatal to them.

 

[ChickyWhicky]

I feed deer scraps and carcass every year. They love it! They eat fish trimmings as well, mostly catfish and sunfish. Keep the trimmings fresh, throw out anything spoiled. When its cold enough to stay below freezing, we will leave a carcass hanging for them to pick at. Happy hunting!

They were so excited to get the first scraps of bow season this week!