Alternative treatments for Blackhead in Peafowl

[MontserratChick]

Hi all,

I live in France and I have a peacock very sick with blackhead. We took him to the vet on Tuesday after he had symptoms for around 1 week (we are inexperienced due to inheriting peafowl from previous house-owners and didn't realise what the droopiness meant until we saw his droppings and looked them up online).

On the advice of @casportpony we brought him indoors to keep him warm and the vet gave us ronidazole and a dog antibiotic containing trimethoprime and sulfamethoxypyridazine (french names for both). We are also tubing him to give him lots of fluids each day and have included some probiotic and cattle rehydration formula.

I have also been trying to get some cayenne pepper into his food and liquids.

You will see that we have quite a hotchpotch of treatments here and none of the recommended drugs I've read about on here. This is because they are either proscribed in France or our vet doesn't have them in stock (she's a very small country vet).

My questions are:

Can give me a good dosage for the ronidazole because I'm not sure he's getting enough? The details on the packet say 10mg per kg of body weight, and this makes about 50mg for him a day, which we're taking to be around 1 fifth of an eight of a teaspoon, which is a really tiny amount and hard to measure. The vet said 1 tsp per 2l of water, but there's no way he's drinking right now so I need to know how much to tube him with. Am finding it very hard so if anybody has any experience then that would be very welcome.

I've also read a lot of examples of alternative treatments. Please can anybody tell me something else I might try right now that has been successful in the late stages of the disease?

What do you feed them (it has to be force-feedable because he's not eating) that helps to give them some energy?

Yesterday he really started to pant a lot, but that seems to have subsided a little today. He had one or two solid droppings in the past two days but the rest are still liquid green/yellow. He looks very, very sad and droopy and thin.

Thank you for your help

 

[Argus]

It's been going on for several days, why haven't you gone to a different vet that has the necessary medicine?

Have you done everything that Kathy has told you to do so far? Why are you "force feeding" rather than tube feeding?

Sorry if you explained this in the other thread but since you started a new one I don't have your previous posts handy to review.

 

[MontserratChick]

It's been going on for several days, why haven't you gone to a different vet that has the necessary medicine?

Have you done everything that Kathy has told you to do so far? Why are you "force feeding" rather than tube feeding?

Sorry if you explained this in the other thread but since you started a new one I don't have your previous posts handy to review.

We live in very deep, rural France. Another vet would be a 90 minute drive away (which I think would finish the peacock off as he's not tame), and most likely not have the other meds anyway, since several of them are forbidden. In fact the current vet was breaking the rules by giving us the ronidazole as it's supposed to be only for pigeons. She has really tried to help us. But she doesn't either have proper feeding tubes. We have to make do with a syringe and a narrow tube that Kathy showed me how to melt the end of. I simply can't process the food small enough to go through the syringe so I have to resort to putting lumps of water-soaked bread into his mouth, pushing it past his trachea. It's hard but I can't think of any other way. If you have some advice I'd really welcome it. I realise that I haven't given all the back story but that's why I put that I had just 3 questions I needed answering:

1) does anybody have any advice on ronidazole dosage?
2) does anybody have any experience of alternative treatment, like cayenne pepper, working and if so how do you go about administering it?
3) are there any particularly helpful and nutritious foods that I can put down his throat to give him maximum beneficial calories so that I don't have to feed him so often? I thought that there might be some that are particularly beneficial for his liver.

 

[Birdrain92]

We live in very deep, rural France. Another vet would be a 90 minute drive away (which I think would finish the peacock off as he's not tame), and most likely not have the other meds anyway, since several of them are forbidden. In fact the current vet was breaking the rules by giving us the ronidazole as it's supposed to be only for pigeons. She has really tried to help us. But she doesn't either have proper feeding tubes. We have to make do with a syringe and a narrow tube that Kathy showed me how to melt the end of. I simply can't process the food small enough to go through the syringe so I have to resort to putting lumps of water-soaked bread into his mouth, pushing it past his trachea. It's hard but I can't think of any other way. If you have some advice I'd really welcome it. I realise that I haven't given all the back story but that's why I put that I had just 3 questions I needed answering:

1) does anybody have any advice on ronidazole dosage?
2) does anybody have any experience of alternative treatment, like cayenne pepper, working and if so how do you go about administering it?
3) are there any particularly helpful and nutritious foods that I can put down his throat to give him maximum beneficial calories so that I don't have to feed him so often? I thought that there might be some that are particularly beneficial for his liver.

There have been people using natural methods, such as spices, oregano, garlic, onions, cayenne pepper, mint, thyme. I've never seen or done any tests using these all natural methods. Mainly just other links, and people saying that they've used them. Most spices though are antimicrobials. One problem that can come with this is that antimicrobials can kill the microorganisms in the cecal. If those microorganisms die, than the bird can't get as much nutrients from plants. So it can have a negative side effect.I wonder if probiotics and electrolytes could help. Vitamin E helps will cellular repair, wonder if that could help as well. Can the vet do a house visit? I would try and see if that's possible since your peacock is already sick, and the last thing he needs is stress.

 

[MontserratChick]

There have been people using natural methods, such as spices, oregano, garlic, onions, cayenne pepper, mint, thyme. I've never seen or done any tests using these all natural methods. Mainly just other links, and people saying that they've used them. Most spices though are antimicrobials. One problem that can come with this is that antimicrobials can kill the microorganisms in the cecal. If those microorganisms die, than the bird can't get as much nutrients from plants. So it can have a negative side effect.I wonder if probiotics and electrolytes could help. Vitamin E helps will cellular repair, wonder if that could help as well. Can the vet do a house visit? I would try and see if that's possible since your peacock is already sick, and the last thing he needs is stress.

Thanks for this - very informative. We actually consulted our herbalist neighbour yesterday and she suggested some things in addition to those I'd also researched online. Alternating with his 'regular' medicine I'm giving him an infusion strained from a mixture of of garlic, cayenne pepper, lemon juice, nettles, rosemary, oregano, dandelion root and milk thistle that I whizzed up in the nutribullet and then soaked in boiling water. I'm also adding electrolytes and probiotic. For food I've started piping in a mixture of rice and chestnut flour mixed with almond milk and olive oil since that's all I could think of that would be liquid enough to fit through the syringe we have. I'll look for something with more vitamin E in, although I think there is a reasonable amount in the olive oil and chestnut flour. I may be able to find a better oil.

We took him to the vet in the first place and she gave us the medication she had available, but it was already quite far advanced so I'm not sure there's much more we can do except to carry on as we are and keep our fingers crossed. I'm really worried about the stress he's under with all the handling and feeding but he would be dead by now without it.

 

[Birdrain92]

Thanks for this - very informative. We actually consulted our herbalist neighbour yesterday and she suggested some things in addition to those I'd also researched online. Alternating with his 'regular' medicine I'm giving him an infusion strained from a mixture of of garlic, cayenne pepper, lemon juice, nettles, rosemary, oregano, dandelion root and milk thistle that I whizzed up in the nutribullet and then soaked in boiling water. I'm also adding electrolytes and probiotic. For food I've started piping in a mixture of rice and chestnut flour mixed with almond milk and olive oil since that's all I could think of that would be liquid enough to fit through the syringe we have. I'll look for something with more vitamin E in, although I think there is a reasonable amount in the olive oil and chestnut flour. I may be able to find a better oil.

We took him to the vet in the first place and she gave us the medication she had available, but it was already quite far advanced so I'm not sure there's much more we can do except to carry on as we are and keep our fingers crossed. I'm really worried about the stress he's under with all the handling and feeding but he would be dead by now without it.

Lemon juice you need to be careful with. Since it's acidic it can damage organs in excessive amounts. Vitamin E is fat soluble, so it will be in foods with oils and fats. I believe some nuts have vitamin E. Probiotic should help promote digestive microorganisms, which will help with nutrition levels increase, hopefully enough strength to fight back and repair the body. How much garlic, cayenne pepper, lemon juice, nettles, rosemary, and oregano are you giving?

 

[MontserratChick]

Lemon juice you need to be careful with. Since it's acidic it can damage organs in excessive amounts. Vitamin E is fat soluble, so it will be in foods with oils and fats. I believe some nuts have vitamin E. Probiotic should help promote digestive microorganisms, which will help with nutrition levels increase, hopefully enough strength to fight back and repair the body. How much garlic, cayenne pepper, lemon juice, nettles, rosemary, and oregano are you giving?

Basically I took a large jar - capable of holding about 24 fluid oz and loosely packed it with nettles, dandelion root and leaves, oregano leaves and rosemary leaves - all direct from the garden. Then I added 3 garlic cloves, one large dried chilli pepper (not sure what they're called but they're very spicy) and about half a tablespoon of milk thistle seed powder. Then I put put in a little water and processed it and then filled it with boiling water. Since then I've been straining bits out of it into the syringe and then diluting with water - 60ml 4 times a day. I now combine this with a mixture I made up of raw egg, chestnut flour, rice flour, almond milk and olive oil (not large quantities of any of them). I have added a little lemon juice but not much as my husband pointed out that the acidity could also interfere with the medication. Oh and I added some of his ronidazole, half a human probiotic capsule and a little of his dog antibiotic. I never feed him more than 120ml in one go. I'd prefer to give him the antibiotics and ronidazole separately but he's so distressed by the feedings that I've decided to keep them to a minimum and get as much in as I can in each go.

I'm interested in the acidity thing because it seems like quite a delicate balance. Many people use Apple Cider Vinegar in their poultry's water to avoid bacteria thriving in their gut, but I stayed away from this in the treatment of the disease during the acute phase. I just added a little lemon juice (maybe 1 tablespoon that has been shared over 2 days) because it was included in this scientific study of preventative treatment for turkeys: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17036753 Perhaps I ought to stay away from it at this point.

Today he looks thoroughly awful again, and is panting really badly. BUT he has done a solid poop and in his liquid ones I can see a few grains of wheat and chicken food (I've left dishes out for him) which shows signs that he's at least trying to eat by himself.

What do you think the panting is a sign of? Is it common in blackhead or more likely the secondary infection? I'm thinking about adjusting the dose of his ronidazole or antibiotic a little to see if we can make some progress. He's been on the meds for 5-6 days now and no real improvement. On the other hand, he's not dead, which I thought he would be within a day.

 

[MontserratChick]

Sadly just as I had posted that last message I heard a thud upstairs and rushed up to find him collapsed. He died a few minutes later. So sad.

 

[Birdrain92]

I feel sorry for you.

Very few organisms can handle acidity. Acidity can, in a way, burn many microorganisms and tissues. The mucus that lines many organs helps protect the tissue from acidity but if they get too much acids in them it will burn through the mucus and into the organs. Just remember with acids and antimicrobial foods, watch them, mainly just because it can do some harm to the animal if in excessive amounts.