Am I making a big mistake?

[PirateGirl]

I live in a dry environment. I find that my run doesn't stink, unless it rains, but the poop doesn't break down and compost well either. Over time the run gets packed down to hard dense dirt. I do not free range, we have an ordinance against it as well as neighborhood coyotes. So far, periodically (maybe once a month), I take a pick to the ground in the run and turn the top 4 inches or so of dirt. This helps mix in the poop that was otherwise sitting on top. It also sometimes gets down to a moister layer of earth (depending on recent weather). Additionally, the girls love it. They find all kinds of little bugs and worms they were unable to get to on their own with how packed down the top layer of dirt was. They like to make new dust baths at this time too. Every time I go to change the water I dump the old water in the run, I figure this little bit of moisture might help the composting. If I throw in scratch I will toss it in an area or corner that looks like it might need a little help. So far so good. In spring I'll probably shovel out some of the top layer for my garden or compost bin if it's not looking ready.

 

[Molpet]

Where did you read that?
The last documents I read from the FDA don't prohibit Carbaryl in poultry.
It is the most common product used and approved for poultry parasites in Canada, Central America and much of Europe.
Here are the recommendations for the US
In the United States, carbaryl suspension concentrates, wettable
powders and dusts may be applied directly to poultry for the control
of Northern fowl mite, chicken mite, lice and fleas. The dust is
applied at the rate of 500g/100 birds and 0.5 percent sprays at the
rate of 4 1/100 birds. Carbaryl dust (5 percent) is used in dust baths
at the rate of 1 kg per box for each 50 birds. There is a seven day
interval between the last application and day of slaughter. The
relative proportion of dust and spray is not known (United States,
1984).
The dust is applied topically, not ingested. There should be no residue in eggs. It would be a good idea if using it in nesting material that eggs be washed before cracking.
http://www.farad.org/publications/digests/122015EggResidue.pdf

they changed it in 2008
SUMMARY:
This notice announces EPA's order for the amendments to terminate uses and eliminate certain application methods, voluntarily requested by the registrants and accepted by the Agency, of products containing the pesticide carbaryl, pursuant to section 6(f)(1) of the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA), as amended. This order follows two Federal Register Notices of Receipt of Requests dated August 20, 2008 and October 15, 2008, respectively, from the carbaryl registrants to voluntarily terminate certain uses of and eliminate certain application methods for their carbaryl product registrations.
https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...ses-and-eliminate-certain-application-methods


http://articles.extension.org/pages/66983/drugs-approved-for-use-in-conventional-poultry-production

 

[lazy gardener]

I pick the poo out of the deep pine litter in my coop every day or two. But this morning it occurred to me that I've never made any effort at all to clear it from the loose dirt floor of their run.

I can't smell poop or ammonia. I wouldn't know how to filter it through all the broken leaves, twigs, assorted feathers and coarse material out there. Is it a disease hazard that they're walking around and eating on the ground out there?

What you have going on in your run is a good thing. You can make it better by increasing the addition of natural materials: wood chips, old litter from the coop, dry leaves, grass clippings, hay, straw, garden debris. The goal is to make that litter 6" deep. the chickens will add their own nuggets and churn it into a lovely black spongy compost that can be used in garden, on lawn, flower beds, or any where you want to see your plants thrive.

Maybe, but IMHO, the key to the deep litter method is to completely remove everything on a schedule - whether that be quarterly, semi-annually or annually.

I don't want to be argumentative, but I can't for the life of me imagine why you would suggest that??? This negates the whole benefit and purpose of DLM. It also removes all of the beneficial organisms. It can take as long as a year to get a good DLM going, especially if done on a wood/vinyl/concrete floor. Less of an issue if done on soil. But KEY TO DLM IS ALLOWING THE BENEFICIAL MICROBES TO REPRODUCE AND THRIVE. TO DO THIS, THEY NEED A BIT OF MOISTURE. JUST LIKE BUILDING A COMPOST HEAP, OR EVEN A GOOD SOUR DOUGH STARTER, YOU HARVEST SOME, THEN LEAVE SOME BEHIND TO INOCULATE THE NEW BATCH SO IT CAN REMAIN HEALTHY.

Please don't put down insecticides when you clean out your deep litter from your run. In order for it to break down into compost you need all the good bugs in the soil to go to work in the litter as they are the ones that break it down. It needs a certain amount of moisture in it as well, otherwise those little bugs can't live in and feed on your litter. The method of making good compost is exactly the same as deep litter. You always need to leave some in the run to seed the next lot as well.

Good post. I only remove compost from my run as needed for gardening purposes. My bigger issue is keeping the DL deep enough. It melts into the soil faster than I can replace it. However I am guilty of removing too much DL from the coop in the fall. I have a fear of things getting frozen up, and the mountain under the perches getting too deep before I can deal with it in the spring. The DL freezes in the winter, and does not "work" at all. However, it really takes off in the spring/summer/early fall. There is NO odor in the coop. I simply add more grass clippings and leaves, a bit of garden debris, and occasionally toss down some scratch to encourage the birds to "work it". Moisture level is kept up by the bird's poo. When I dig into the DL under the perches, the top layer is very dry, with moisture encountered towards the floor. I know that my DL is too dry in the coop, and it would perk even better if I added some water, but am hesitant to do so b/c of fear of moisture damage to the wood structure.

I will also buck the system, and state that I do put down some DE and some permethrin when doing my partial fall clean out under the perches in the coop. I dust it into the perimeter of the coop floor, and into the joints between the roosts/walls. My theory is this: AFAIK Neither product will kill microbes. Both will kill insects. In my coop, I WANT to kill insects, but leave microbes intact. If I am wrong in my thinking about the effect of Permethrin or DE on microbes, I'd love to have someone set me straight with some published literature. Please!!!

 

[IamRainey]

The thing about deep litter is I only have 3 chicken and I think it would probably take forever and a half for them to deposit enough to interact with the pine shaving. Plus, it's so dry here that the poo just dries into nuggets which also are going to have a hard time breaking down into anything other than dust as someone above pointed out.

Meanwhile, there's the bulk of the poo which drops onto the collection board. Am I supposed to toss that in with the pine shavings? I scrape it up into a small pail and dump it directly only my garden compost piles every day or two.

I'm not terribly concerned about getting compost from my chickens. I have 4 huge piles in various states of decomposition at any given time from my gardening and they produce all the compost I need.

So what remains is concern for keeping my chickies from disease. What's my best plan for that in maintaining the coop and run?