Am I screwing up with Brewer's Yeast?

[jmc]

Thanks guys,

I realize that b.y. contains more than just (a small amnt. of) Niacin. 1 1000mg tab. has a whole .30mg of Niacin.

I shouldn't have been too 'absolute' about what I said about b.y. and niacin above..............

I do not think I am going to operate on our many birds that have bumble................

 

[goosedragon]

This is chemistry and nutrition not rocket science. So happens I am a chemist and have formulated pet foods professionally and water fowl rations for my own use.
Bumblefoot is an infection, would you take vitamins to CURE an infection? The vitamins might help your body cure itself and might not work in time before the infection killed you . Bumblefoot if it is serious, calls for antibiotics and opening and cleaning out the infected tissue. If it is minor and you don’t have Obamacare you can try to help the body heal itself with vitamins (brewer’s yeast) That’s what brewer’s yeast is, a source of vitamins. If you have a brewery or a home brewer around their waste becomes your feed additive and it is win-win for both of you.
If you have to go to the health food store and buy little bottles it becomes expensive in a hurry. 7% of brewer’s yeast in your ration is going to cost unless you can buy it as a byproduct.
Niacin – much of the niacin in the grains that make up feed is not bio-available to waterfowl. Pure chemical niacin is. So even though the Niacin in the analysis on the bag is right, it doesn’t mean that all the niacin in the feed is available to your birds. I supplement with niacin in the starter water. Once off to a good start they usually don’t need more. Niacin by itself does not cure bumblefoot either.

 

[Bossroo]

John, It now sounds that you have a flock situation rather than an individual duck problem. We on BYC have great information for you with our own experiences, we just can't see the "big picture" of your current situation. I would heartily recoment that you contact your State Poultry Extention Office and have their Veterinary specialist come out and inspect your land, housing, ducks, and operation management and practices and make specific recomendations to you. This should be a free service or minimal cost service to your monestary. Best of luck to you.

 

[Chickies-duckies-etc]

Where are the people that are using brewers yeast getting it? I want to start adding it to the poultry feed and so far have found the "from the health food store" kind to be very expensive. There is a co-op almost within reasonable driving distance that sells brewers yeast for 59 cents a pound. She keeps it because one of her customers has it added to their feed mix. That is a HUGE difference in price. Is it the same type stuff? And the same as the brewery grains?

 

[Duck_feeder]

Quote:
Even with health store varieties, there's no guarantee that one batch of brewers yeast is of the same quality (or even yeast species) as another batch from the same company. Some of the variations can be attributed to what the yeast was fed, strain of yeast used, temperature of fermentation, etc. The nutritional contents is based on averages - it is not absolute like it is in purified supplements. The health supplement market is horribly regulated... but that's a long rant we don't need to get into now.

Basically, brewer's yeast is just the dried up crud they filter out of alcoholic beverages (usually beer). The reason it is used as a vitamin b-complex (including niacin) supplement is because:
1) brewer's yeast is efficient at producing b-complexes which are very readily bio-available (easy to absorb) (actually almost all forms of yeast are which is why bread is a good source of b vitamins)
2) it's a cheap waste product of fermentation

Main difference between brewer's yeast, baker's yeast, torula yeast, and "nutritional" yeast as a supplement is that those yeasts have much lower amounts of chromium available (assuming of course chromium was available in what the yeast was feeding on...). Since it's the b-complex vitamins that we care about for ducks, any yeast should provide the desired extra nutrition. I wouldn't be concerned whatsoever if the co-op yeast is the "same" as the health store stuff.

The high prices for health store varieties comes from the need to package it for human consumption (sterilization, processing into tablets, packaging, etc) and more importantly, the HUGE mark up put on supplements. People that believe they need particular supplements are willing to pay a lot more for them than they are actually worth and companies know that.

I'd wager that the brewer's yeast from the co-op is likely coming from microbreweries or home brewers that are more than happy to give it away for free or cheap. It's possible that the cheaper stuff is actually better for the ducks as it probably doesn't contain unnecessary chemicals used as tablet binders, fillers, coloring, flavor, etc. (purely conjecture on my part). Main risk would be if the yeast went bad... (should be obvious by the smell- it should smell like yeast, not rotten garbage)

Is unprocessed yeast safe to eat? Considering that you ingest some every time you eat leavened bread, unfiltered alcoholic beverages, and many fresh fruits (that dull color on grape skind is yeast), I'd say it's reasonably safe (barring allergies or contamination of course).

 

[goosedragon]

Quote:
No not the same as brewery grains. in beer making the grains are 'malted' which means they have been started to sprout and then stopped by with holding water. This step converts most of the starches in the grain to sugar. The dried malt is cracked with a mill and treated with boiling water to extract the sugar into solution (this is the brewing step) the hot solution is circulated through the malt solids to extract as much sugar as possible the grains act like a filter.
The liquid is placed in another vessel and the brewers yeast is introduced to convert the sugars to alcohol The yeast doubles a few times in the fermentation cycle and starts to fall out of solution. this is the yeast that is collected and used to start the next batch. there is always more yeast produced than is needed for the next fermention cycle so it is dried and either sold or dumped.
the crushed malt and grains are low in carbohydrates and sugars because they have been extracted for beer but the proteins remain and the "spent grains" or 'brewery grains" make a pretty good feed ingredient plus it is cheap because other wise they would have to pay to dispose of it. Hope this makes sense, sometimes it is hard to explain if you know the process too well.

 

[Chickies-duckies-etc]

Quote:
No not the same as brewery grains. in beer making the grains are 'malted' which means they have been started to sprout and then stopped by with holding water. This step converts most of the starches in the grain to sugar. The dried malt is cracked with a mill and treated with boiling water to extract the sugar into solution (this is the brewing step) the hot solution is circulated through the malt solids to extract as much sugar as possible the grains act like a filter.
The liquid is placed in another vessel and the brewers yeast is introduced to convert the sugars to alcohol The yeast doubles a few times in the fermentation cycle and starts to fall out of solution. this is the yeast that is collected and used to start the next batch. there is always more yeast produced than is needed for the next fermention cycle so it is dried and either sold or dumped.
the crushed malt and grains are low in carbohydrates and sugars because they have been extracted for beer but the proteins remain and the "spent grains" or 'brewery grains" make a pretty good feed ingredient plus it is cheap because other wise they would have to pay to dispose of it. Hope this makes sense, sometimes it is hard to explain if you know the process too well.

Wow! Thank you for that great explanation. I have heard about the brewery grains, knew they were the cast off from the beer making process but didn't know how beer is made to know the details. Now to see if I can find a local brewery that I can get some of the grains from. If the lady at the co-op is getting the brewers yeast from a brewery, she may have the grains also at a reasonable price.

 

[CityChicker]

Quote:
No not the same as brewery grains. in beer making the grains are 'malted' which means they have been started to sprout and then stopped by with holding water. This step converts most of the starches in the grain to sugar. The dried malt is cracked with a mill and treated with boiling water to extract the sugar into solution (this is the brewing step) the hot solution is circulated through the malt solids to extract as much sugar as possible the grains act like a filter.
The liquid is placed in another vessel and the brewers yeast is introduced to convert the sugars to alcohol The yeast doubles a few times in the fermentation cycle and starts to fall out of solution. this is the yeast that is collected and used to start the next batch. there is always more yeast produced than is needed for the next fermention cycle so it is dried and either sold or dumped.
the crushed malt and grains are low in carbohydrates and sugars because they have been extracted for beer but the proteins remain and the "spent grains" or 'brewery grains" make a pretty good feed ingredient plus it is cheap because other wise they would have to pay to dispose of it. Hope this makes sense, sometimes it is hard to explain if you know the process too well.

Wow! Thank you for that great explanation. I have heard about the brewery grains, knew they were the cast off from the beer making process but didn't know how beer is made to know the details. Now to see if I can find a local brewery that I can get some of the grains from. If the lady at the co-op is getting the brewers yeast from a brewery, she may have the grains also at a reasonable price.

I agree! That is so interesting, goosedragon! Thank you for posting that info. You should start a website since you are such a wealth of knowledge. I can't wait to take some classes that are focused solely on animal nutrition and feed development. I just haven't been able to fit it into my class schedule yet. I have noticed that when my birds were all on actual duck chow, they looked a little better. I think they are doing great on Purina Flockraiser, just not quite as good as when they were on Duck chow. Granted, it doesn't seem to be a huge difference by any means. Is it possibly because of the animal products in the Duck chow?

On the issue of Bumblefoot, part of the issue that I see here is that sometimes people think their bird has Bumblefoot and it doesn't. Cracks, bumps, calluses, etc... do not equal Bumblefoot. Bumblefoot is an infection and in my experience anyway, usually is characterized by a swollen scabbed over area. Minor foot problems (absent an infection) are extremely common in waterfowl. Just look at the number of people here that are continuously posting about foot issues. It is almost the norm and it is probably caused by a number of factors.

 

[Le Canard de Barbarie]

Quote:
You're correct. Reqirements for ducks in total is about 25 mg per pound of feed. Niacin deficiency is exacerbated by the use of amprollium in feed.

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/poulsci/tech_manuals/feeding_ducks.html

You can increase the niacin level maybe 5 mg per pound for starters if your ducks are exhibiting signs of niacin deficiency. FYI, limping is not a sign as suggested by a few on this forum.

From http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/206928.htm

Turkeys, ducks, pheasants, and goslings are much more severely affected by niacin deficiency than are chickens. Their apparently higher requirements are likely related to their less efficient conversion of tryptophan to niacin. Ducks and turkeys with a niacin deficiency show a severe bowing of the legs and an enlargement of the hock joint.

I have seen Niacin deficiency in batches of ducks due to poor feed, and they really look like bow legged ducks with large hocks. When walking, they trip themselves up.

 

[Le Canard de Barbarie]

Below is a link to 100 count of 1000 mg Niacin capsules for $10.

http://www.puritan.com/b-3-vitamins-niacin-363/niacin-b-3-1000-mg-034558?NewPage=1