Ameraucana & EE project - is it worth it??

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by Cloverleaf Farm, Nov 20, 2009.

  1. Cloverleaf Farm

    Cloverleaf Farm Bearded Birds are Best

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    Levan, UT
    Ok, so I have a quad of black bantam Ameraucanas from John Blehm (GORGEOUS!!). And, I picked up a quad of lavender bantam "ameraucanas" (as ADVERTISED) from someone that I had to drive over an hour to get. He swore to me that they were not "hatchery" birds, and that he had been breeding his birds for years. They are very typy. They have beautiful combs, are all definitely lavender, and all have definitely slate legs. (Wouldn't let me onsite to see the parents because of "biosecurity" reasons, which I was totally ok with, and am now questioning his real reasons).

    AFTER the transaction was complete, only then did he happen to mention that these birds hatched from PINK eggs! WHAT??!?!?!!! I know I should have asked ahead of time. I didn't say anything, after driving that far, they were fair priced, and my son instantly fell in love with the roo.

    So, my question is this....

    Is it even worth it, or possible, to "breed out" the EE?? I would OBVIOUSLY only sell chicks as EEs for several generations from these lavs, but what I am wondering is if I put the lav girls with my black (TRUE Ameraucana) roo, and then from those chicks, only bred females that inherited the blue egg gene from daddy back to TRUE Ameraucanas, would I eventually end up with birds that breed true for the egg color? Would these birds eventually BE Ameraucanas, after generations of washing out the pink egg gene? Or will they FOREVER be EEs?

    Or, should I just be happy I have a cute little quad of lavenders, sell their chicks as only EEs and shut up about it? [​IMG]
     
  2. Soccer Mom

    Soccer Mom Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 5, 2009
    West of Crazy
    I didn't think Lavender was even a recognized Ameraucana color. Even if you bred them to the black Ameraucana, they wouldn't be a true Ameraucana because they aren't a recognized color--regardless of what color the eggs are. At least that is the way I understand it. I'm far from any sort of expert.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2009
  3. Cloverleaf Farm

    Cloverleaf Farm Bearded Birds are Best

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    Levan, UT
    Quote:They aren't recognized yet, but there are Ameracuana breeders that are breeding lavender birds. I honestly don't know where they are at with getting them recognized though...
     
  4. Soccer Mom

    Soccer Mom Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 5, 2009
    West of Crazy
    Well they can't be APA recognized, so I would just be truthful and say that they are Lavender birds of Ameraucana type. I assume that these folks are moving to try and get the color recognized. To do so, they have to be able to have them breed true. If you want to partake of this then just keep working to get them as closed to the standard while maintaining the color. If you just want lovely birds with nice eggs, then simply enjoy and sell any offspring as EE.

    Just my .02. [​IMG]
     
  5. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    Tempe, Arizona
    Yes, you can eventually weed out the brown egg genes and breed in the blue eggshell genes. Ditto with every other trait. As far as the APA & ABA go, if it meets the standard, it is the breed. (Regardless of what the ameraucana club or breeders say. [​IMG] )

    The question you need to ask yourself is whether or not you want to take the time and work to weed out the incorrect traits as compared with spending the $$ to get a bird who is further along in development towards ameraucana standards?

    FWIW, EEs are as likely to come from a breeder as from a hatchery. Learn which questions you need to ask for a particular breed, and ask them; this includes background work such as checking references and memberships.
     
  6. Crunchie

    Crunchie Brook Valley Farm

    Mar 1, 2007
    Maryland
    Lavender is still very much a project variety, and you'd be hard pressed to find birds that were standard in every way. It sounds like the breeder sold you exactly what he advertised, if they are as nice as you say otherwise. I have Lavenders (large fowl), and their egg color leaves a lot to be desired--they are green, some with a hint of blue (if I look hard enough [​IMG]). Definitely not blue or blue with a bit of blue-green tint. Shoot, some of the recognized varieties still need plenty of work on egg color! These things never end. [​IMG] It's all part of the process.

    So, if you want a project, go for it. If the type is nice, like you say, then you've already won a lot of battles. If you've got blacks with nice type & egg color, then you have the genetics to start fixing the Lavs egg color. I won't get into the great Ameraucana vs. EE debate over non-recognized colors, [​IMG] but lavender Ameraucanas are a project that quite a few folks are working on. If you want to sell their chicks, I would sell them as project Ameraucanas and just be upfront about the faults that you are working to correct--they may very well be valuable to someone else's lavender project.
     
  7. karabbitry

    karabbitry Chillin' With My Peeps

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    As Sonoran Silkies said they can be shown. Just because something is not in the standard does not mean it is not part of that breed. In this instance you can show Lavender Ameraucana's at shows if they conform to all other breed traits. They can go as far as winning a variety.

    Quite a few breeders have been working on Lavender (if I am not mistake I think John Blehm is working on them). The best way to improve them IMO is to cross them to blacks that have good type. Your first generation will most likely be black unless they happen to carry lavender. Then cross the offspring back to either their siblings or the lavender parent(s) to get 50% black and 50% lavender. Do this as needed to obtain the blue egg color or type.

    One thing that I am going to make lots upset with I think is, even though the standard says that the Ameraucana's lay blue eggs, if a bird conforms to type and color in a show pen and does not lay an egg in front of the judge, he/she will never know and it won't be a problem. That theory works just in show cages, if you were to sell these birds that would need to be made known to the buyers. JMO.

    Anthony
     
  8. Cloverleaf Farm

    Cloverleaf Farm Bearded Birds are Best

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    Levan, UT
    Thanks so much to all who responded...your opinions helped me out alot...I think I'll give it a go, just for fun, see what I get, that sort of thing!! [​IMG]
     
  9. amazondoc

    amazondoc Cracked Egghead

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    The operational term here is "project bird". I'm working on developing mille fleur in bantam cochins. They are my project birds. You are now the proud owner of lavendar Ameraucana project birds. As long as you make clear to everyone that these are PROJECT birds -- a work in progress, and not yet perfected -- then you can sell with a clear conscience. [​IMG]

    Enjoy them!
     
  10. EweSheep

    EweSheep Flock Mistress

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    I agree with Amazondoc, project birds! Heck I would not mind having a few lavender Am/EE crosses but I've got enough as it is!

    if I remember right, Mr Blehm did start his Amercuana bantams from Marti's and he had to do alot of work to get where he is doing now. Maybe over 20 some years? So it has to start somewhere!

    Be sure to cull heavy for the undesirable traits until you get the desired traits you are looking for under the ABC's classifications. I am hoping they will start accepting the Lavenders.
     

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