Ameraucana thread for posting pictures and discussing our birds

[ashandvine]

Thanks for the tip you just solved my problem. Now all I gotta do is catch her. LOL

You are both welcome. I am still catching and recording here. lol Its ruined easter for DH! Colored zip ties are my best friends!

Here's another bit I learned. Watch which chicks feather out fastest or crow earliest. They will likely produce eggs earliest and have tighter feathering. (Go read Bob Blosl in the heritage thread for details and real sense. Its was on the last two posted pages.) As I go forward I will be watching this. Now I just have to try to read Genetic Chicken Code For Dummies!! (oh someone PLEASE write this book!)

 

[ashandvine]

I have my first Blue wheaten ameraucana, and I'm wondering if someone can tell me what is going on with these spots on her legs (i.e. is this normal?). It is the only chick that hatched, so I have nothing to compare to.

She has black spots on her legs, like an Ancona. This side of her beak is yellow, but the other side has black.





I'm hoping this is just some kind of off-coloring that happens occasionally, not some strange fungus or something. She is 8 weeks old now, but 7 weeks in the photo.
I appreciate any feedback. I don't recall seeing these spots on other people's photos of Ameraucanas.

That is not a Blue whaeton. That is a splash, and because of the legs it is actually an ee

I would like to go back to this post a minute. I want to be clear that this bird is only an Easter Egger to those people who are talking about SOP standards and not misconstrue that this bird is not Ameraucana. I realize that the terms are confusing to many. Easter eggers can be mixes or culls but there is a lot more going on in the genetic coding of these birds than just slate legs or muffs. Please realize- as I am beginning to, that the bird this woman has could be useful for breeding other traits in and out of Ameraucanas, which would still make them Ameraucanas and not EEs. I am starting to have issues with the idea that every non SOP bird is an EE. It would be helpful if there were another term. OE as well because I have Ameraucanas from great breeders who lay mossy green eggs instead of the light teal, or who have purple and green sheen, and not just beetle green. When it gets right down to it there are a lot of traits (LOTS) that are genetic or visual, creating non SOP Ameraucanas but they are still Ameraucanas. "Project" birds for color are EE if we confuse standards with genetics. The EE term should only apply to cross breeds IMO, and then only the first few generations, as, after that, a specific breeder can start another standard or color by breeding selectively. This business of every non SOP Am being called an EE is creating too much confusion otherwise. People who want to breed or learn need to have clear answers not more confusion. SO HERE IS FOLKS:

Anything that isn't Ameraucana to Ameraucana is EE. Am bred to Am (AmxAm)
Non SOP Ams are just that.
EE (should be) Amx _____.
They are all still chickens and none lay golden eggs... but if one does I want some of their offspring!

(now if I could just convince everyone else to stop calling any non SOP Am an EE we could get somewhere. )
phew.

 

[FuzzyButtsFarm]

Very well said. And in Spocks words. Logical

 

[mstricer]

Quote: HUH

all that is confusing me.

 

[ashandvine]

HUH

all that is confusing me.

Sorry. Which part?
Ameraucana is a breed with standards-- standards are opinions which are agreed upon and set down as judging rules.
Genetics determines a breed, but genes are tricky tricky tricky.
If we are going to call a breed of chicken a name that means 'not this breed' then we need to be clear what makes the breed. I get that. BUT when talking about genetic preferences and projects where people breed in other breeds of chickens for their body type or colors, they are working on genetics and with opinions again. They 'like' this color or shape. It isn't about the breed standard or its heritage (just to use another confusing word.) BYC needs a lexicon of terms simplified and agreed to-- an SOP for terms
My issue with folks claiming every AM cull or Am whose appearance doesn't meet SOPs an EE is that it creates confusion about breeds instead of being clear about non-standard/non-breed types. EE never explains itself The EE term isn't working well. I was trying to say that if you are breeding Ams and you breed an Am to an Am (AmxAm, irregardless of color ) then it is an Ameraucana. If it doesn't meet SOP then it is just that; Non Standard of Perfection Ameraucana (NS Am in my mind but I am not trying to create more anacronyms, just keeping the typing down a little.) If it is a cross breed, an Ameraucana with something else, then its an EE. The egg color trait is dominant so any cross will have the colored egg-- hence, EE being not Am.
When projects are started, people use other breeds to introduce typing-- color type, body type etc. and then breed carefully to get a bird whic meets the standards set out for as many types as can meet the SOP but with that new trait (color usually). Those initial generations of cross breeds are not Ams but EEs (EE= not Am). Careful breeding can bring the offspring to a point where they 'breed true' and then wait around to get approval (recognition) from APA as a SOP option. Example: Silver laced Brahmas. Blue Laced Ams. When the offspring meet all the standards *but with that new color* every generation that is breeding true. They are breeding out the old traits of the other bird bred to create new color and continuing to breed ones carrying the new color hoping that a wildcard gene doesn't pop up, hence the wait to get recognition (ie if the new color Ams produce new color Ams every time and not show traits of other birds or colors used to make them anymore they are breeding true and can get recognition as that breed AND new color for standards.) That is why I said that the first few generations of a really good breeder are EE not Ams. They become Ams again through that selective breeding that eliminates traits-- getting back to SOP again folks I hope other people can see how this is confusing to a new person coming in if you can't follow what I am saying. I am saying it as clear as I think I can.
AmxAm= Am period
Amx other chicken breeds= EE

NS AmxAm=Am or NS Am This is where judging comes in.

I'm saying a NS Am isn't an EE. EE should only be about the breed and not about standards. Any better??

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Anything that isn't Ameraucana to Ameraucana is EE. Am bred to Am (AmxAm)
Non SOP Ams are just that.
EE (should be) Amx _____.
They are all still chickens and none lay golden eggs... but if one does I want some of their offspring!

(now if I could just convince everyone else to stop calling any non SOP Am an EE we could get somewhere. )
phew.

Don't entirely agree because although Splash Ameraucanas are not in the SOP nor will they ever be - they can and do regularly produce true Blue Ameraucanas which are in the SOP. And I know folks working with serious project colours like lavender that are perilously close to inclusion in the SOP might also find this a bit "strong".

 

[kathyinmo]

Quote:
I tried this food color trick. Didn't work for me. Let me know if it works for you, please.

 

[FuzzyButtsFarm]

Quote:
I completely understand what you are saying and it makes perfect sense to me. In my experience I have seen this happen in other breeds. You take two pure breed whatever and the offspring have a trait uncommon to either of the parents.

 

[Cloverleaf Farm]

Hello everyone! Just an FYI...selling off my bantam Ameraucana..... https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/678822/bantam-ameraucana-flock

 

[chicknadventure]

as a new breeder (and I use that term loosely, I think enthusiast might be more appropriate at this time) I totally understand where ashandvine is coming from. If I may expound: If I have a barred rock, from 2 barred rocks, who has pale legs, he doesn't get a special name to denote his non-sop appearance. He is a "pet quality" barred rock. Now, he could be used due to his beautiful plumage, to deliver nice offspring with nice yellow legs, and maybe he even throws a SQ chick.

No where was he nullified as a barred rock.

Where this gets tricky, is that you don't have hatcheries selling barred rocks with solid white heads and pale legs and long tails, calling them "barred rocks" just because the majority of the body is barred and they have the right body type and comb. That would be ridiculous. But that is what is happening with the ameraucana.

So is there someway that the ABC can either file a lawsuit, or do something, to stop hatcheries from selling EE's under the name "ameraucana" and then that would allow the breed some breathing distance from the mutts, and then the EE/Ameraucana dividing line would be much clearer. It would also allow breeders to sell their Ameraucanas under "pet quality" vs show quality and for their to be more definition.

I think that, until the hatcheries stop selling birds that are no where NEAR the SOP of ameraucanas under the name ameraucana, then we can discuss all day why or why not some birds should be called ameraucanas but we won't get very far.

Just some thoughts, and as I said before, from a newbie.