Ameraucana thread for posting pictures and discussing our birds

More than likely not. The other cockerel I could have bought had a better tail angle/less fluff but had ticking and a bad comb.

ETA: His tail angle is to upright, right?
 
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More than likely not. The other cockerel I could have bought had a better tail angle/less fluff but had ticking and a bad comb.

ETA: His tail angle is to upright, right?
Please note - my observations are from weeks of reading - I do not have AMs.. yet...

It is hard to tell when they are in the cage like that. Take some pictures when he has room to stand normally, then you can check the tail angle. I have seen conversations on a few birds that had the fluff when they were younger, after their saddle feathers grew in fully it wasn't noticeable. If your girls hold their tails properly then you can fix that in the next generation or two, he doesn't have a squirrel tail. The ticking and the comb are harder to fix... so I say good choice.
 
I have only sold one bird in 3 years and have culled a large amount. The culls never left my premises other than I gave 50+ birds away either to someone I was positive would not breed them, one person who will knows what she is doing and can pull some very nice birds, and a neighbor who I can monitor. I try to keep things simple with blacks, whites and Lavenders.

You can safely house a couple of "cull" Lavender girls with me
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GUARANTEED no breeding here. No roosters because no fertile eggs are allowed - even though I have a Faverolles that thinks she is hatching eggs, ANY of the girls' eggs, and if there are no eggs, pine shavings!

My daughter (who would LOVE a couple of Lavender colored birds) won't eat an egg the MIGHT be fertile. I'll be ****** if I am going to raise chickens for eggs and then have to buy eggs at the store. No showing either. Not that far into chickens and who needs to worry about bringing some disease into the "backyard" flock?

They would have to be half way decent layers though. As much as I like my live yard art, I am feeding them so they can feed me.

Bruce
 
bruceha2000,
Sorry just about everything has been culled especially the lavender ameraucanas. It would cost to ship more than the birds are even worth.
 
I am disgusted. Everyone hyped up this line and of course, being a newb (at least I knew the difference between Ameraucanas and EEs), I got sucked in based on egg color. The birds did look good in the pics. They were young, too. Then I get them home, they grow out and then I breed. Oh, look! I have pretty eggs and birds with issues! I didn't get into this for eggs. I spent a small fortune (over $400 with driving and purchasing) on 6 birds to start me off. I spend the same on 5 Chocolate Orps shipped to me!

I am disgusted with my entire flock, to be honest, it's not just the Ameraucanas. The Ameraucanas are my focus right now until March/April. Like I said before, these issues set me back an entire year, plus.

On a side note, I also noticed this line does not lay well. I was lucky to get an egg every other day out of 5 girls. If I got 3 a day, I thought there was an apocalypse coming! They like 60-70 degrees with a slight breeze, partly cloudy to rainy. Otherwise, no eggs. I hatched less than 50 birds from January to October last year. I sold 4-5 dozen or so. I figured with 10 girls this year, I should get an egg a day for sure! Maybe 2 every other day! That's triple the eggs from only double the girls - so I am not getting hopeful. LOL!

The first paragraph is really disturbing to me. I looked over your birds and I don't see why you would say such a thing unless you have set your expectations way too high. There seems to me to be several birds there that are worthy of being shown and certainly worthy of breeding.

I have seen these same kinds of comments on other threads and often it appears that folks who are serious about breeding do their homework, educate and inform themselves, seek out good if not great foundational stock, AND THEN expect to buy some eggs and hatch out the next National Champion! I would just like to encourage you to lower your expectations a bit. If you've followed the Ameraucanas for long, you know that none of them - regardless of the variety - is winning Best of Show or Grand Champion Large Fowl or such. So obviously the breed needs a lot of work. This is due to a lot of various factors. A lot of the folks are just happy to win BB and not even care about AOSB. Most Ameraucana breeders are putting most of their efforts into the Blacks and Whites and then Blues. The reason? Those are the birds that win at the shows. And then there is the problem of far too many people coming in that are new to breed and wanting to come up with the next new money-making fad by trying to create some new variety. The desire to do this is easily understood when one looks at how easy it is to create something new and different and the ease in which chickens can be bred and sold. However, every new "project bird" that comes along only detracts from the time, effort, expense, and energy needed towards the existing varieties we already have that aren't even close to being "perfect" yet.

Because there just aren't a lot of seriously dedicated breeders - especially when it comes to the W & BW's - you are going to wind up getting eggs that are going to require a lot of work on your part to get the birds to where they need to be. In other words, you are going to have to start off with in all likelihood far more breeding pens (combinations of parents) than what you'd like and slowly but surely work your way down to a more manageable number. So, with that being said, I would be encouraging you to set your goals down on paper. I'd recommend starting with no more than two specific traits you want to improve on. Then begin to pick out the birds you believe will best get you there, set up a specific breeding plan with a specific set of initial goals, and then go to work on achieving those. Then linebreed and keep meticulous records while doing so.

I hatched 100 chicks from each of my four breeds and I only kept about 4 of each breed. That's not to say I may not have sold some good birds as chicks to others or that I didn't sell some awfully nice pullets and cockerels but rather than I only kept the best 4. Having said that, I would say a good 50% or so of what I saw and sold were not quite where they need to be in order to be a good, solid show quality bird. In fact, I remember one or two that were the "calico" colored pullets I've had in the past and I still have problems with the black ticking showing up in hackles or elsewhere. But when you hatch 100 chicks, one ought to be able to pick out at least a half dozen or so good ones. Having said that I can honestly say that I've seen improvement in my W & BWs every year since I got them.

To your second paragraph, I'd just say welcome to world of breeding. Stuff happens. Even after breeding for years something unexpected can happen and set you back. Again, I'd encourage you to get used to it or find another hobby. Breeding birds and being in the fancy should be a joy. Frustration like you're experiencing really isn't necessary nor worth it. Life is too short. Best to find something that doesn't raise your blood pressure so high.

To the third paragraph, several years ago I experienced productivity problems as well. So I had to reorganize by breeding program. Just one of those unexpected things that came up (See paragraph above). This is just another trait one has to consider when putting together their breeding program for the year. If one truly loves the breed/variety they have, they will make the necessary commitment to the long term effort needed to improve it. There are no short cuts. It takes time, effort, dedication, and a LOT of patience to continue working with a breed/variety that needs a lot of work. But I love my WBS Ameraucanas and I sure would love to see a whole lot more people devote themselves to them as well.

God Bless,
 
Starting with great stock from an established reputable breeder is pretty much essential if you are serious about breeding. IMO if the "breeder" does not show they may not have what they think they have.

I agree. Breeding is a process. If you don't enjoy the constant ups and downs, and striving for perfection, it is not for you. This is not mean, just the truth. It is not a race either. Some of my most disappointing birds have cost the most, but gave me a place to start. I look forward to where I can get them in 10 years, not 2. In one of my color project in another breed, I bred over 300 chicks last year to keep about 10-12 birds. Lots of money, lots of time, lots of work. Once in a while, I get a word or two of praise from someone whose opinion I value. Last year, I had a breed club president, (not Ameraucanas), show interest in getting a bird from me. This was the best form of praise I can imagine.

I agree with Phage but would add that starting with stock from an established reputable breeder doesn't mean you're gonna start out with "great" stock. I'm not gonna name names here but I can tell you that I know of one of the top Ameraucana breeders in the country who still gets stubs from time to time. And I can tell you that last year I had stubs pop up when I have NEVER had it happen before. Obviously those chicks were culled. I also know of several top breeders who have dealt with the single muff/beard gene issue. So all this is to say that folks shouldn't be overly disappointed if something like this happens when they buy eggs from an "established reputable breeder". I really hate it when I see folks trashing someone that I know has dedicated themselves to the breed for a long time.

And to Dak's comments, I would just say "Ditto." I've been to a couple of shows where this person or that made a comment about my birds to me or that I may have overheard and I walked away happier than if I'd won Champion LF.

God Bless,
 
I just have to say- Reyvaughn- I feel your pain. I have been there with the wheatens. Time and again, year after year. Finally getting a decent little flock together to work on productivity, then to have all the girls magically disappear while we're away at the hospital.

And- its pretty near impossible to hatch 300 chicks when they don't lay!!!!

I am starting over as well. I have an older roo from Jean that has been so good for me, maybe come fall I can use him again.

We'll get there. It will be worth it. I hope.
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I understand issues pop up. I knew the BW/Ws were not 'established' and they would be another project for me. But, like I said, when you buy with intentions of breeding and showing, you'd think the person selling them would tell you they do not breed towards the SOP. They breed for egg color. I have two really nice girls - both splash wheatens - and I did talk them up. One is from my breeding and the other was hatched from bought eggs and I know the one I bred is out of one of the 3yr old hens I sold in late summer. Other than being duped by the 'breeder' I bought my stock from, my flock issues are beards and muffs, leg sprigs (they do disappear, but they are still born with them), red ear lobes, production and size. I am sure there is more... I have the 2 girls with ticking but other wise everyone else is free of ticking. Most of their eyes are bay brown - this new trio's eyes are more yellow I noticed. I have small, tight combs that I am very proud of. Most of my girls have no combs to speak of. I really can't take credit on the combs, though - I am just making sure they stay. Of course, the coloring isn't quite right on the wings and tails, but that is not something I am ready to tackle right now.

I should have researched more a year and a half ago, yes. I should have bought birds off of someone more established and was/is breeding towards the SOP. I am not giving up. I am sorry my complaining upset so many of you, but I was really trying to vent my frustrations in a place I'd get some support and direction. You guys are all I have to talk about my flock with. I have not joined the ABC because being small time, I don't feel like embarrassing myself with substandard birds. I didn't even know they had single beards until someone on here mentioned it. I did get a clean faced girl that raised suspicions, but they were pecking beards and I didn't know she was clean faced until she was much older. I culled her, obviously. I got 3 more out of my October hatch as well and culled them.

As HappyMtn said, it's hard to breed stock when they just don't lay, too.

Again, I am not giving up. I have those chicks from Paul coming and I just got this trio (they guy ordered them as chicks from Wayne Meredith). I also have two other emails out to breeders with hopes of improving what I have.

Genetics questions.
Red lopes: dominant or recessive?
Not saying I am going to, but... Wheaten is recessive, right? If I were to breed a wheaten to a black, I'd get a black bird. If I bred back to a wheaten, I'd get 75% wheaten/25% black? I pondered breeding back to blacks to hopefully fix the production issues and maybe tail fluff. Would it cause more ticking, though? Has anyone does it?
 
Reyvaughn,


RED EAR LOPES: I believe they are a combination of several genes, I could be wrong but I have been struggling with them since 2005 in Ameraucanas. Some say the hens
are more on the pinkish side but I have Araucanas that have bright red ear lobes so don;t understand why there is such a struggle to get the Ameraucanas
with bright red ear lobes.


Black X's: You better check with someone that has Wheatens. Like I said I have no wheatens.

Everyone gets frustrated at times. Even when you think you bought the best birds available you will still get culls or need improvement somewhere. Good luck and have fun.


Jean, removed that comment because you know how it goes on here.
 
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Do not use buffs to improve your wheatens!!!!!! They aren't anywhere near the wheatens for quality, egg color, or egg laying ability.

On the lobes, the females generally do not have red lobes most of the female ameraucanas on my place have "skin" colored lobes, which is completely acceptable. You just need to make sure you don't have the mother of pearl look in them. That is enamel white showing through.

Yes, stubs can be an issue, but cull hard. I had it pop up one year out of the blue too.

Single muff and beard can be an issue also. Sometimes, you can't tell a bird has it. Generally a bird with the single muff and beard gene has very small muffs and beards and sometimes not. There is no way to tell on some of them that they have it until you breed the birds. By then it's too late. You have to cull the sire and then weed through the females using a clean faced sire. It is time consuming and you can loose the better part of a year of breeding.
 

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