American serama thread!

[TimSchmelling]

I do not belong to any group. However, I would say the roles are somewhat reversed, with the original group being the poor mannered one. This really isn't my concern.

I know Kapan were used in serama. That doesn't bother me. What does bother me is that it the truth has been so misappropriated. I have talked to Malaysians and other experts and they agree this is the case. So instead of hiding it and making it worse, why don't we come clean and fix the issue?

I would welcome a couple pictures of your birds for comparison.

 

[TimSchmelling]

Artsyrobin,

I don't mean to single you out, but you have pictures of your birds. They certainly look much closer to the pictures of Ayam Kapan than serama. Plus they look much larger. I don't know how some cannot see the obvious, or is it that they do not want to see?

 

[cluck-cluck]

The Malaysian Serama comes in many varieties including such extremes as to look as if they're falling over backwards. Honestly, from all I've read now, I think Malaysians took it to a different aesthetic in the past 12+ years, and Americans went a different direction. Many American breeders also didn't breed properly to keep the type up to standards (American aesthetics, straight, soldier at attention stance with head back chest out) But from what I've seen from the top breeders here, they are most definitely Serama, not Kapans, though some poor specimens do look a bit like that. But those are poor specimens, not what is desirable.

Anyway, a "pure breed" is simply a chicken that conforms to a set of standards and breeds mostly true. Other than that, there is no such thing as a "Pure bred chicken". All breeds can be reproduced from other stock given enough time and talent (as they have done with the Sultan in Australia) so the point, genetically, is pretty silly IMO.

 

[cluck-cluck]

Artsyrobin,

I don't mean to single you out, but you have pictures of your birds. They certainly look much closer to the pictures of Ayam Kapan than serama. Plus they look much larger. I don't know how some cannot see the obvious, or is it that they do not want to see?

Boy you do seem like a troll. I don't know your purpose, but if you are unhappy, please go back under your bridge and eat little goats and stay grumpy there. We don't need this here. Thank you and good bye

 

[artsyrobin]

Quote:
well, Tim, seeing that this is only your third post, and you jump in swinging at our seramas, don't know that your opinions hold much value- i have them and love them- am i in it for the money or showing, nope, in it because i love the birds- i don't sell eggs, or birds- so the high definition of standards isn't much of an issue to me- their personalities are an issue and that won't change.

 

[JulieNKC]

Every breed's standard, and looks seem to vary slightly from country to country, so why would it matter if the serama's in america look like the serama's in Malaysia? No one expects an orpington to look the same here as it does in England.

 

[TimSchmelling]

Genetically, the birds would be very different. If you took a serama made from our Kapan imports and bred it sometime in the future to a true serama, the resulting offspring would not retain type.

I have heard these inaccurate arguments before but that does not change the fact that Kapans, not serama, were imported. We may be building a breed, a somewhat lookalike bird to the serama, but it certainly is not a serama. I have looked at pictures in this thread and have not seen "serama", only Kapan. I am not the only one saying this. Serama John has been to Malaysia and seen the US stocks first hand. He has several article stating that we do not have true serama here. Again, I wellcome your pictures of your birds for comparison.

 

[TimSchmelling]

I would not take offense; you have been duped as other have by a fictional history of serama in the U.S. However, such vehement but unfounded anger may indicate you actually do see at least a hint of what I am saying. Again, pictures for comparison are welcome.

 

[TimSchmelling]

Julie,

No we don't have exactly the same standards per breed in multiple countries. However, when we start with a kapan and breed a kapan like bird, why would you call it a serama? It seems to make a buck. And not everyone, no, but some are. If I took a kapan and breed it to nankin standard, it still is not nankin.

 

[JulieNKC]

Actually, the blood doesn't matter, to my understanding. Chickens aren't pedigreed. If I take an orpington and a wyandotte and the offspring looks just like a rock, and breeds true, for all intents and purposes I have a rock.