An apocolypse herd/flock

[jason_mazzy]

perchie.girl :

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it is a form of food preservation by allowing it to ferment or "sour" under controlled conditions. Traditional Sauerkraut is an example.

Salting and pickling are definately forms of preservation. Look at KimChee, Sauerkraut... Sauerkraut is very interesting stuff. Its only made with salt. As well as Fermentation. Cheese making is a way to preserve milk. And Many cultures ferment milk to make an alcaholic drink.

FWIW The second step in fermentation is Vinegar. The first step is alcahol. Both purified (distilled) can be used as antescepic. Many of us know the value of Vinegar its something that should be on that list of need to knows in a post apocolypic world. both can be used as preservatives both can be used to "clean" things.... Vinegar is actually alot better because its an acid that PH is excellent for killing microorganisms and molds. Alcahol not as much.

The other thing to use for preserving food and or making food edible is alkali. Native americans discovered that corn soaked in water made from the ashes of their fires was more nutritios. Those ash soaked corn kernals turn blue. Wood ash water distilled down becomes Lye. Lye and animal fat can be used to make soap. Dont know how much of each. I believe it also has applications in tanninng leather but Id have to do some digging to be sure.

Lye can be used to Turn Olives edible Dad and I could strip one Olive tree in about two hours and get eighty gallons of olives With the use of lye to remove the bitterness and finally Vinegar to nutralize the lye. Believe it or not after we were done we had to beat our friends and family off for a Jar of olives. (once the vinegar has done its job these olives are only mildly acidic).

Its also used for reconstituting dried corn to an edible kernel.... Homony. Very very interesting process Most of us are familiar with Grits. Grits that are made from homony... are different. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominy​

hard wood ash is also used to soak acorns to amke them more palatable, also when mixed with water wood ash forms a basic mild lye that can be used to wash clothing

 

[caspernc]

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Nope, wouldn't have large ones with the food ratio they have and how easy it would be to target one. Don't freak either, I love the big ones. My Saint Bernard was 250lb of love and drool, but we're talking protection. For livestock a lean guardian breed, but for home, my pack of Rat Terriers are working dogs. They kill vermin, rats and snakes, and keep the coyotes off my chicken and geese, and never miss raising an alarm on 2-legged vermin as well. I have 6, standards with Decker blood, running from 20 to 35 lbs. They make great foot and lap warmers as well.

That is one of the missunderstandings of the Great Pyrins(sp) LSGD. They have a very slow matablism (I talked to several who have them and breed them). They said you have to really keep an eye on their weight, they tend to eat what they kill and then you feed them and before you know it they are fat.
The only problem with them that anyone could tell me is they do bark at night ALOT. But as for anything getting on your property, not going to happen. You always have more that one, they like their pack. I'm really wanting my get two or three.

 

[bucket04]

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I hear you can make coffee from acorns. I don't have any around where I live, but I figure if you can roast acorns into coffee, why not other beans and nuts?
I have been roasting my own coffee for a long time. Green coffee beans take up less space than roasted and store longer. So stocking up on that is a better idea than stocking up on pre-roasted, pre-ground. Although, I do keep around a few small bags of coffee for use in a pinch, and also believe they will make a nice bartering staple.

I love the honeybee idea, been thinking of that for a while now. Not only do you get the pollinating aspect and the honey to eat in place of sugar, but the honey has healing qualities as well. If you or anyone in your family has allergies, the backyard honey will help you build up an immunity to allergens within a two mile radius of your bees. Seeing as how you will not be able to go to the market for those kinds of meds, honeybees would be invaluable.



As far as the rest of this, I have been putting a lot of thought into it as well. I agree with many of the choices of the previous posters and have learned quite a bit too. My problem is, we currently live in an area with a home owners association, and as such, have rules on how many animals we can keep. Once the SHtF, I realize we can keep what we want, but how does one secure these things prior to being able to house them? I am sure that competition for all resources, including stock animals will be EXTREMELY high if everyone finds themselves in need of them at the same time. It's not like you can go wandering around and find everything you need and just steal it. Quite a bit of what people are talking about here is something that must be aquired long before you think you'll need it. Especially if you're talking specific breeds.

On a garden front, if you've never had a garden, you won't be able to produce one simply because you now have to. Tossing seeds into the ground doesn't magically produce enough food for your family. I've been trying to have a self-sustaining garden for several years and I still don't have it right. Every year I have to try something new because what I'm doing isn't working. Hopefully I'll succeed soon, but as of right now, there is no way I can sustain even myself on what I can grow....let alone my entire family.

I am hoping that is where my small bags of barter coffee will come in handy. lol

 

[flocksalot]

Quote:
I hear you can make coffee from acorns. I don't have any around where I live, but I figure if you can roast acorns into coffee, why not other beans and nuts?
I have been roasting my own coffee for a long time. Green coffee beans take up less space than roasted and store longer. So stocking up on that is a better idea than stocking up on pre-roasted, pre-ground. Although, I do keep around a few small bags of coffee for use in a pinch, and also believe they will make a nice bartering staple.

I love the honeybee idea, been thinking of that for a while now. Not only do you get the pollinating aspect and the honey to eat in place of sugar, but the honey has healing qualities as well. If you or anyone in your family has allergies, the backyard honey will help you build up an immunity to allergens within a two mile radius of your bees. Seeing as how you will not be able to go to the market for those kinds of meds, honeybees would be invaluable.



As far as the rest of this, I have been putting a lot of thought into it as well. I agree with many of the choices of the previous posters and have learned quite a bit too. My problem is, we currently live in an area with a home owners association, and as such, have rules on how many animals we can keep. Once the SHtF, I realize we can keep what we want, but how does one secure these things prior to being able to house them? I am sure that competition for all resources, including stock animals will be EXTREMELY high if everyone finds themselves in need of them at the same time. It's not like you can go wandering around and find everything you need and just steal it. Quite a bit of what people are talking about here is something that must be aquired long before you think you'll need it. Especially if you're talking specific breeds.

On a garden front, if you've never had a garden, you won't be able to produce one simply because you now have to. Tossing seeds into the ground doesn't magically produce enough food for your family. I've been trying to have a self-sustaining garden for several years and I still don't have it right. Every year I have to try something new because what I'm doing isn't working. Hopefully I'll succeed soon, but as of right now, there is no way I can sustain even myself on what I can grow....let alone my entire family.

I am hoping that is where my small bags of barter coffee will come in handy. lol

You know you can take a soil sample into your local ag dept or university and have them tell you what your soil contains and what you need to do to improve it. In most cases it's amend amend amend with compost, but for others it may be as simple as adding lime or peat or both. Anyway they are very good at analizing and making recomendations. You will be amaized at how well things can grow when they have the proper nutritian and a hospitable soil. then you can start planning for your next step.

 

[BWKatz]

I agree with most of the comments. I have started in earnest this past year preparing. We moved onto 2 acres with a well and experimental sewage system that takes up 1/4 acre ( I planned on raised gardens over the drip sewage grid with lettuce, collards tomatoes , okra, pole beans, carrots, etc. I have storage in my downstairs which is stuccoed cinder block and underground on 3 sides.I plan on canning and have a safe for storage of guns and ammunition. I started with 4 pullets(White leghorn, EE, and 2 polish) that are now laying and awaiting my day old chicks that will include roosters(LF-BCM, Americauna, EE, olive eggers and silkies I couldn't resist. I'm finishing up my new coop & pen with all hardware cloth and deadbolts. House is wired to tell me if any door is opened (with battery backup) and cameras waiting to be installed. Hope to get solar panels,generator and wind mill for electricity by end of year. We live near a lake and have plenty of bass and catfish. Deer come into my yard along with wild turkeys, rabbits,so the only domestic I might consider is a couple of goats. However I have a neighbor at the end of the road I could barter eggs for milk and also one with horses for the occassional ride. My husband and I both use canes or w/c's so it would be very rare. We don't drink milk but would need for baking , butter and cheese. I could grow enough vegetables for us but wouldn't want to tackle anything more. I have already started stocking up on rice , noodles, canned goods(including meat. I plan to get the aluminum trash cans for dry goods, Oh Charleston, SC grows rice in paddies. I am planting pecan trees, an apple tree, peach & plumtrees, figs, and blueberry bushes. We already have blackberry bushes. Although there is alot we can't do physically(we're both 60 with disabilities), We can offer sewing, canning, childcare, eggs, education and nursing skills. I also have an extensive herb garden. I am really looking for an old treadle sewing machine. In my Home Ec class in High school , we had everywhere from a treadle to a brand new sears computerized sewing machine.I remember when I was really young sitting on the treadles when my mom was sewing, I starting sewing doll cloths when I was 3. I also make my own laundry detergent. Been thinking about honeybees too, had them in one of our homes before in the wall. Along with my sunflowers that are already coming up I want to try to grow some muscidine grapes native to this area. I know I have rambled on but I wanted to make the point that u use what u have, know ur neighbors and treat them like u want to be treated, conserve ur natural resources.... do this and u just might make it. BTW I read the entire post and really enjoyed all the comments. Nice to know there are like minded people out there.
PS Forgot to say that for those w/o storage in apartments, etc.; get a storage building. Preferably away from the complex but convenient to ur way home from work so it will his will give u a small measure of safety if looters hit ur complex.

 

[MustLoveHens]

I have been reading this thread and decided to chime in! I have been slowly gathering supplies as I can and have a long way to go, but I want to be prepaired should anything happen. I try to get my supplies with a Natural Disater view instead of an apocolypse view, but I also try to over lap what I get with looking long term self reliance. For me, it's hard being a heart patient and knowing that should something catastrophic happen I have only a finite amount of time before my heart's replacement parts gave out. I'd would try to make the most of the time I had and enjoy as much of my friends and family as I could!

I have been reading up on being more self reliant and this year will be my first to try canning making jam. I want to kick myself here, though since my mon and dad canned and jammed althrough my childhood and wanted me to learn. I did not see the need then but man I wish now I had! If anything just from the stand point of saving, using and keeping up with what the garden produces!!

For protection and to get food, we have hunting guns and personal protection guns and ammo. My dh and I collect all ammo when we can.
We also have 8 dogs, so the livestock and homestead are safe there.
We live next door to a dairy farmer and they have cows and some sheep.

What I have so far are chickens. Some are a production breed and but most are heritage dual purpose breeds. I am looking into getting meat rabbits this summer. I have a Mini Rex as a pet but he is small and I want meat breeds. I'm looking into the Silver Fox, American, or the Standard Rex and possibly Californians.
I also am looking into starting a honeybee hive.

We have a garden and we have great soil. I plant only heirloom seeds but I do have a few hybrid's just because the seeds were on sale. We have planted an Elderberry and some Saskatoon Service Berries. We also have planted two apple trees and two cherry trees and plan on planting some more fruit trees and an few nut trees this summer. We are also looking into building a green house for next summer.

The animals I would like to get are:
Honeybees
3 pigs-Mulefooted or Red Waddle
3 goats for meat and milk-Oberhasli goats have cought my eye, but Boar or Nubians for meat and La Mancha's for milk. I also can work with them to become draft and carting goats. I started down this road about 6 years ago, but I had to sell the goats. I think that draft goats are a better choice then horses in some cases. Horses are wonderful and I'd want a couple, but goats are smaller and require less speace for those who have space issues. They eat less then a horse as well. They also are cheaper to aquire and cheaper to keep in feed and to maintain. One thing horses may require are shoes. In an apocolyptic situation, if your horse needs to have shoes and you no longer have a farrier then you have a problem. While there are many breeds that can go shoeless, the vast majority of horses that most people readily can get will have and need shoes.

With that in mind the horses I'd want are Minitures-no shoes required, they are small, eatless, and are easy to handle. Comparatively speaking the also can cost less to purchase.
For large horses, I'd probably want either a mule-no shoes and hardy or a draft of some sort. In my area we have lots of drafts, so they would be easy to find.
If I got either goats or horses, I'd need to get hoof trimmers and a rasp to do hoof care and maintenance if I can't find a neighbor who can trim hooves. Not a perfect senario, but sometimes you have to do what you gotta do!

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

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I highly recommend the Silver Fox! They eat about the same as my little Thriantas but are much larger and meatier, and have WONDERFUL pelts. Also very mellow temperaments that would be good in a colony set-up, which I would go to in a situation where I was no longer showing, just trying to produce meat for the family.

If I were to get Goats, I would be hard pressed to choose between a small and efficient line of Nigerian Dwarf or the big and impressie Alpine. A large Alpine wether is HUGE, and can pack or pull a cart like nobody's business. No way would I have a horse. Even a mini. I've looked into small pigs. It would definitely have to be a SMALL pig. Can't afford to winter over a pair of 600 lb beasties! LOL

 

[dawnwinds58]

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I highly disagree. People think wheat and corn is all a chicken should eat, which is completely the opposite. For grains, there's options like Amaranth, Quinoa, Corn, Wheat, Barley, Millet, Sorghum, Tef, Oats, and plenty others I can't currently name. Many of them enjoy different climates like cool and dry, or hot and wet, or mild and moderate, etc. Even here in the soggy, dark Pacific Northwest, there are crops one can grow.


But, back to the point - Crops aren't what a bird should solely rely on. There's plenty other stuff out there. When we started out living on the land in America, we fed our poultry plenty of winter squash, greens, produce, fruit, seeds, etc. Especially even seafood.


Just because a bird is dual purpose doesn't mean it is a pig. Even breeds like Araucanas are small yet very meaty for their size, and don't eat much, and are GREAT foragers, excellent fliers, and super broody moms.

The sorghum is especially good if you make sure it is a grain type. The heads feed chickens, the stalks are crushed and juice cooked for sorghum syrup, and then feed the pigs the stalks. 100% use with 0% waste.

 

[SourRoses]

Not that it really matters overmuch... but...
The reason most horses 'need' shoes is the terrain they are likely to be encountering.. such as pavement, gravel, ect. with a hard/heavy work load on very firm surfaces. Many horses can go barefoot with the occasional trim, which minis need as well.. and if a horse 'needs' shoes, it really shouldn't be perpetuated in this hypothetical lifestyle.
Mustangs and Brumbies often run wild their whole lives without the need of shoes, or even the trimming because they frequently run over rocky areas and such.

Everybodys idea of what this scenario would constitute is quite different, if we are even sure ourselves... but still, I think it's a little questionable to imagine all these different varities of animals being raised on lean forage/rations. I just mean, if you don't manage to aquire some decent acrerage in such a circumstance.. I think the point of how economical an animal would be is really moot. If one kind of goat would over-graze the land alloted to it, I don't see how another kind would be so very far away from doing the same. I think it would be more important to see that the animal is suited to the climate and the type of food available, as when stressed they would be eating more.
I would also be choosing my animals for their suitability to the type of task I have in mind... since if it doesen't fit the purpose and *me* just right, it would take that much more of my valuable time, energy, and rescources to work around the deficiency.

 

[dawnwinds58]

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I had goats, 45 does and 2 bucks. Over half of those and the 2 bucks were registered Boer stock, the rest were mostly Nubian or Nubian crosses with a few Kikos and 2 Myotonics (Fainting/Tennesse Stiff Leg). I will NEVER have another Boer on the place! The fullblood kids didn't thrive well, alot of 'limp kid' (Floppy-Kid Syndrome) problems even with medication. After seeing the end results in mothers dumping kids, refusing them, no milk, beating each others kids up, and a huge assortment of issuses with fencing, I got rid of them. I had 8 strands of electric, tight high tensile wire and couldn't keep them inside their own 35 acres. Who stayed in and did well? The full Nubians who milked like Jersey cows and would take 4 kids, 2 who weren't theirs. The Kikos and Myotonics out grew, out weighed, out-kidded (trips to quads) and put to shame the blooded stock. I've planned to get a few meat goats back, but they will be Kiko and Myotonic 'Fainters,' with some Nubians for milk production.

Not preachin' just offering information I got from experience. What you do with it is up to you.