Ut-ohhh!
This could go on forever!
This could go on forever!
Angelwing, protein levels, and processed food - Can this be a sticky?
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"Metabolism change" does not mean cancer, which is the statement you made, not me. Cancer is a function of age and carcinogens, not carbohydrates, which as I stated, are what fuels your body via the molecular process cellular respiration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CellRespiration.svg
So, no offense, but you can post all the stuff you want - I have a Master's Degree in Toxicology and spent two years of my undergrad doing animal nutrition trials and major metabolic clinicals for feed companies. One of them just happend to be on - wait for it - Glucose uptake in non-GLUT4 receptors via chromium enhanced diets. Another one was on endogenous Vitamin C protection in young vs. aged horses.
If you REALLY want to know what is going on then you have to look at the original study, see if they had controls, if the controls were acceptable, what was the methodology they used to perform the experiment or trial, look at all the finished data, compare all the data with the conclusion, and then look to see if someone else repeated it and start the process all over again with their study.
I already said that Vitamin D is an antioxidant at times it can also be poisonous if you take too much because it is fat soluble. Nutrition just isn't that one sided and you can't just draw conclusions based on isolated studies, especially ones that have not even had a clinical trial.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CellRespiration.svg
So, no offense, but you can post all the stuff you want - I have a Master's Degree in Toxicology and spent two years of my undergrad doing animal nutrition trials and major metabolic clinicals for feed companies. One of them just happend to be on - wait for it - Glucose uptake in non-GLUT4 receptors via chromium enhanced diets. Another one was on endogenous Vitamin C protection in young vs. aged horses.
If you REALLY want to know what is going on then you have to look at the original study, see if they had controls, if the controls were acceptable, what was the methodology they used to perform the experiment or trial, look at all the finished data, compare all the data with the conclusion, and then look to see if someone else repeated it and start the process all over again with their study.
I already said that Vitamin D is an antioxidant at times it can also be poisonous if you take too much because it is fat soluble. Nutrition just isn't that one sided and you can't just draw conclusions based on isolated studies, especially ones that have not even had a clinical trial.
Time will show. The studies are currently underway in Germany. The links I provided were not my only sources. These were just the easiest to get a hold of. The role of vitamin D and carbohydrate on health and nutrition is SLOWLY coming out of the dark ages. The politics alone makes your head spin.
As for vitamin D toxicity, which is thrown around quite a lot to scare people, INFANTS don't start showing signs of vitamin D toxicity unless they are on doses of 40,000 IU for 1-4 MONTHS.
"Vitamin D 1000 μg (40,000 IU)/day produces toxicity within 1 to 4 mo in infants. In adults, taking 1250 μg (50,000 IU)/day for several months can produce toxicity. "
http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec01/ch004/ch004k.html
Since the average woman requires 4,000 IU/day and the average male requires 6000 IU/day, recommended people drink a glass of milk, take a multi-vitamin and stay out of the sun is ridiculous.
As for vitamin D toxicity, which is thrown around quite a lot to scare people, INFANTS don't start showing signs of vitamin D toxicity unless they are on doses of 40,000 IU for 1-4 MONTHS.
"Vitamin D 1000 μg (40,000 IU)/day produces toxicity within 1 to 4 mo in infants. In adults, taking 1250 μg (50,000 IU)/day for several months can produce toxicity. "
http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec01/ch004/ch004k.html
Since the average woman requires 4,000 IU/day and the average male requires 6000 IU/day, recommended people drink a glass of milk, take a multi-vitamin and stay out of the sun is ridiculous.
You can not assume that every scientific study is providing 100% completely valid results
Yes, you actually have to study the studies. The very ironic thing is the "studies" used to completely change the typical diet and sun exposure of American haven't stood the test of time. The evidence was thin and, particularly in the case on Ancel Keyes 7 nations study that led to the low fat mantra, completely misleading. There was data from (I think) 22 nations available at the time. He conveniently ignored all the data that didn't fit his hypothesis that ingested fat caused disease. Yet, the studies that suggest we return to what worked for humans for millions of years are poo-pooed, not followed up, and funding for new ones are not made available. In the process of curing many infectious diseases, we traded them for chronic diseases like type 2 diabetes, cancer, heart disease and obesity. I like a world where we don't get cancer, type 2 diabetes or heart disease, things once very rare, while ALSO doing without polio, whooping cough, the mumps, tb, etc...
Yes, you actually have to study the studies. The very ironic thing is the "studies" used to completely change the typical diet and sun exposure of American haven't stood the test of time. The evidence was thin and, particularly in the case on Ancel Keyes 7 nations study that led to the low fat mantra, completely misleading. There was data from (I think) 22 nations available at the time. He conveniently ignored all the data that didn't fit his hypothesis that ingested fat caused disease. Yet, the studies that suggest we return to what worked for humans for millions of years are poo-pooed, not followed up, and funding for new ones are not made available. In the process of curing many infectious diseases, we traded them for chronic diseases like type 2 diabetes, cancer, heart disease and obesity. I like a world where we don't get cancer, type 2 diabetes or heart disease, things once very rare, while ALSO doing without polio, whooping cough, the mumps, tb, etc...
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DB
With all due respect re. your Masters Degree...I really doubt that was the case with me since like I said...
for years I've been very susceptible to getting colds/bronchitis and flu, then sudden I stop getting sick and the only difference is an increase in Vit D?
No studies will convince me otherwise since they're often flawed and please don't bring up the AMA "placebo effect" excuse because I wasn't even aware of the D deficiency thing until after the fact.
So I will continue to take my supplements, exposed myself to the sun without sunscreen (limited of course)and take the AMA with a grain of salt due to their unethical conflict of interest.
Last but not least... isn't it odd that since the polio vaccine there has been no cures for any diseases?
I rest my case.
DB
With all due respect re. your Masters Degree...I really doubt that was the case with me since like I said...
for years I've been very susceptible to getting colds/bronchitis and flu, then sudden I stop getting sick and the only difference is an increase in Vit D?
No studies will convince me otherwise since they're often flawed and please don't bring up the AMA "placebo effect" excuse because I wasn't even aware of the D deficiency thing until after the fact.
So I will continue to take my supplements, exposed myself to the sun without sunscreen (limited of course)and take the AMA with a grain of salt due to their unethical conflict of interest.
Last but not least... isn't it odd that since the polio vaccine there has been no cures for any diseases?
I rest my case.
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Here is an excellent example of someone who studies the studies....
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/bogus-studies/last-gasp-of-the-dark-ages-of-nutrition/
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/lipid-hypothesis/low-carb-litesort-of/
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/fast-food/meat-and-mortality/
Those are from the blog of Dr. Mike Eades, author of Protein Power and Protein Power Life Plan.
Another studier of the studies is Gary Taubes, author of "Good Calories Bad Calories". He is an award winning journalist who spent 5 years tracing the origins of current medical advice and where it all went so horribly wrong. If reading a book written for grad students isn't your idea of fun, you can watch a lecture he gave at Berkeley for free
http://webcast.berkeley.edu/event_details.php?webcastid=21216
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/bogus-studies/last-gasp-of-the-dark-ages-of-nutrition/
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/lipid-hypothesis/low-carb-litesort-of/
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/fast-food/meat-and-mortality/
Those are from the blog of Dr. Mike Eades, author of Protein Power and Protein Power Life Plan.
Another studier of the studies is Gary Taubes, author of "Good Calories Bad Calories". He is an award winning journalist who spent 5 years tracing the origins of current medical advice and where it all went so horribly wrong. If reading a book written for grad students isn't your idea of fun, you can watch a lecture he gave at Berkeley for free
http://webcast.berkeley.edu/event_details.php?webcastid=21216
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Dear Cottage Rose I am trying to control the dragon in me that flames posters. I kept quiet as you explained your health "theories" but this is just plain wrong and I can't find a polite way to say it. Vaccines do not CURE diseases, they try to PREVENT them (I have 23 years in working on vaccines for childhood diseases, If you got a liquid or a sugar cube vaccine rather than an injection for polio it was our vaccine) Most of my effort was on a vaccine for a disease that most people haven't heard of, Haemophilus influenzae type b or Hib disease for short
Wikipedia "Prior to introduction of the conjugate vaccine, Hib was a leading cause of childhood meningitis, pneumonia, and inflammation of the epiglottis in the United States, causing an estimated 20,000 cases a year in the early 1980s, mostly in children under 5 years old. Since routine vaccination began, the incidence of Hib disease has declined by greater than 99%, effectively eliminating Hib as a public health problem. Similar reductions in disease occurred after introduction of the vaccine in Western Europe and developing countries."
BTW there was a cure for this bacteria caused disease, any good antibiotic would kill the bacteria, The problem was that the infection caused high fevers in an hurry and by the time the child got to a doctor and the lab tests came back their little brains were fried. The fever damage from this infection was the leading cause of deftness and mental retardation prior to the vaccine.
The reason I say most people haven't heard of the disease was because we pretty much wiped it out, even most doctors have never seen a case.
During those years many other vaccines have been introduced to the point that many parents and most children complain that babies have become like pincushions from shortly after birth until they start school. A well baby can't get out of a doctor's office without an injection of one or the other.
Besides the vaccines just about any new antibiotic and some few drugs are actually cures. You may have been speaking loosely so you could "rest your case" but you were/are just wrong! ~gd
Dear Cottage Rose I am trying to control the dragon in me that flames posters. I kept quiet as you explained your health "theories" but this is just plain wrong and I can't find a polite way to say it. Vaccines do not CURE diseases, they try to PREVENT them (I have 23 years in working on vaccines for childhood diseases, If you got a liquid or a sugar cube vaccine rather than an injection for polio it was our vaccine) Most of my effort was on a vaccine for a disease that most people haven't heard of, Haemophilus influenzae type b or Hib disease for short
Wikipedia "Prior to introduction of the conjugate vaccine, Hib was a leading cause of childhood meningitis, pneumonia, and inflammation of the epiglottis in the United States, causing an estimated 20,000 cases a year in the early 1980s, mostly in children under 5 years old. Since routine vaccination began, the incidence of Hib disease has declined by greater than 99%, effectively eliminating Hib as a public health problem. Similar reductions in disease occurred after introduction of the vaccine in Western Europe and developing countries."
BTW there was a cure for this bacteria caused disease, any good antibiotic would kill the bacteria, The problem was that the infection caused high fevers in an hurry and by the time the child got to a doctor and the lab tests came back their little brains were fried. The fever damage from this infection was the leading cause of deftness and mental retardation prior to the vaccine.
The reason I say most people haven't heard of the disease was because we pretty much wiped it out, even most doctors have never seen a case.
During those years many other vaccines have been introduced to the point that many parents and most children complain that babies have become like pincushions from shortly after birth until they start school. A well baby can't get out of a doctor's office without an injection of one or the other.
Besides the vaccines just about any new antibiotic and some few drugs are actually cures. You may have been speaking loosely so you could "rest your case" but you were/are just wrong! ~gd
Quote:
DB
With all due respect re. your Masters Degree...I really doubt that was the case with me since like I said...
for years I've been very susceptible to getting colds/bronchitis and flu, then sudden I stop getting sick and the only difference is an increase in Vit D?
No studies will convince me otherwise since they're often flawed and please don't bring up the AMA "placebo effect" excuse because I wasn't even aware of the D deficiency thing until after the fact.
So I will continue to take my supplements, exposed myself to the sun without sunscreen (limited of course)and take the AMA with a grain of salt due to their unethical conflict of interest.
Last but not least... isn't it odd that since the polio vaccine there has been no cures for any diseases?
I rest my case.
No offense, but you were not controlling all variables - so you cannot make that assumption and call it scientific. You can call it opinion, but not scientific.
DB
With all due respect re. your Masters Degree...I really doubt that was the case with me since like I said...
for years I've been very susceptible to getting colds/bronchitis and flu, then sudden I stop getting sick and the only difference is an increase in Vit D?
No studies will convince me otherwise since they're often flawed and please don't bring up the AMA "placebo effect" excuse because I wasn't even aware of the D deficiency thing until after the fact.
So I will continue to take my supplements, exposed myself to the sun without sunscreen (limited of course)and take the AMA with a grain of salt due to their unethical conflict of interest.
Last but not least... isn't it odd that since the polio vaccine there has been no cures for any diseases?
I rest my case.
No offense, but you were not controlling all variables - so you cannot make that assumption and call it scientific. You can call it opinion, but not scientific.
GD...really, I do understand that vaccines help prevent not "cure" diseases. Once again I worded something wrong...but anyhoo... why no cures AND/OR vaccines for most of the major diseases?
What the heck have they been doing with all of that money Jerry Lewis has raised to find a cure for MD or MS or whatever it is he has those fund raisers for?
I'm sorry...I think drug companies are simply multi-billion dollar business's that don't want to help cure any diseases.
BTW thanks for controlling your flaming, again.
Have you been out in the sun too long?
What the heck have they been doing with all of that money Jerry Lewis has raised to find a cure for MD or MS or whatever it is he has those fund raisers for?
I'm sorry...I think drug companies are simply multi-billion dollar business's that don't want to help cure any diseases.
BTW thanks for controlling your flaming, again.
Have you been out in the sun too long?
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Never claimed it was "scientific"
just that it works for me and thats all that matters to me.
Never claimed it was "scientific"
just that it works for me and thats all that matters to me.
Now that we have solved the angelwing problem (and we must have since we are not discussing it anymore), I think this thread has run it's course.
Thanks for your participation.
Thanks for your participation.
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