Animals are NOT Humans

[pepperluvsmee]

The loss of ALL of my chickens in November to a weasel was much more hard to bare then putting my 26 yr old horse down due to a stroke the year before. I suppose because I got to say goodbye to my her, she was my friend. You are right, she is not human, but she was still a huge part of my life on a dailey basis. So were my birds. It hurts when you get that emotinally attached to an animal. When I stop getting upset at a loss of one of my pet's, then it is time for me to no longer own any more.
-Theresa

 

[fowltemptress]

Someone mentioned that taking out natural predators such as coyotes is why the deer population is out of control.
I have to disagree, though it can happen that way. In my area, both the deer and the coyote population is out of control. I would attribute the insane numbers of deer these days to the government's destruction of the screw worm.
Countless numbers of cattle - and deer - lost their lives to that awful bug. Old timers can tell horror stories about it. Coyotes will never be the population control that a tiny little bug once was.

 

[beekybuzzard]

Quote:
I have thought this often reading posts here. It's not hard sometimes to see who is born and raised in the country, not small town but the actual country, and who comes from the other parts. It is just a different way of life, with different problems in each, but I would rather have the problems out here where neighbors look out for each other and I can leave my doors unlocked, day and night whether I am home or not, and have never had anything stolen from here. Even when I was across country on the left coast a week or so ago a few friends and neighbors looked after my place and animals and the door still unlocked when I got home and everything in its place.
There does not have to be anger in everything that is done. When I kill anything there is a reason and a purpose, whether protection or for food. I have never "sport hunted" and would not associate with anyone who felt the need to. If you can't go out and get it on your own and bring it home and clean it then just go to the grocery store. I have several weapons but I hunt with a bow from the ground with arrows I make myself. I don't hunt as much now as I used to but I do stay in practice, but I will protect the animals I raise from anything that comes to attack them. That's not being angry or harsh it's just life down here, and a pretty peaceful one for the most part.

 

[Biddy]

I have hunted for meat and sport all my life. My father and grandfather did the same. I resent us being described as blood thirsty killers leaving meat to rot. This is just not so. I have and do hunt everything from ducks to deer. I know lots of hunters and they frown on waste of wild game. Also we do not get some sort of perverse satisfaction from the act of killing. We put a lot of effort into harvesting game in the most humane way. True there are the fenced operations and poachers. This type of individual is a black eye on any indeaver. As a matter of fact I am not happy with the way commercial chicken operations are run, but I am not lumping the folks in this forum with them even though both raise chickens.

We spend millions of dollars on gear, clothing, and licenses every year that are taxed with a lions share going to wildlife departments such as the Dept. of Nat. Resources here in MO. Also there are organizations that work to improve habitat and support wildlife populations. Quail Unlimited, Ducks Unlimited, the National Wild Turkey Federation, and hundreds of others have invested time and money on wildlife.

And for the folks that raise chickens for meat, it is really for sport. I mean, why don't we just eat tofu chicken instead of killing innocent chickens. And there are people around who think it is wrong to imprison chickens for their eggs.

It is all in the way we percieve things.

And back the the thread, if something manages to get through all the layers of protection I have for my little flock, I am not gentle in dealing with it. They kill my chickens because it is what they do and I kill them because it is what I do. Nothing to get mad about.

 

[kstaven]

Biddy you misunderstood the "sport" part on this thread. It was meant to describe those that hunt just to kill and then leave the carcass to rot. No need to get wound up here.

 

[Wolf-Kim]

Quote:
I think a majority of the people here are associating "sport hunting" with wasteful poaching. If you think about it, almost all hunting can be considered sport because we have grocery stores..lol.. I have no problem with hunting, but you better use what you kill. I think that was the point of them pointing out sport hunting! Like you said, most hunters are sensible enough about using their harvest and being respectful, but it's those select few that do cut the heads(or just antlers) of a beautiful 12 point buck and leave the rest rotting that are being called the "sport hunter." And this does happen, I had a friend who fed deer in his backyard with the intention of "harvesting" the buck later, he watched it grow from just a fawn and got too attached to "harvest" it once it reached a 12 point status. The deer stopped showing up and he found it a week later, lying in the middle of a farmer's feed missing it's head.

When I think of a sports hunter I think of someone who is out for something specific and doesn't plan on using his "harvest" wisely. A "sports hunter" is what I call a trophy hunter, someone who is ONLY after the antlers(or ivory). I think what most people who posted are reffering to are the "trophy hunters" and not the people who hunt for sport but use the meat.

 

[raffello]

The topic of this thread made me think of a news story that was on a couple of days ago, not sure how many people saw it, and the details are a little fuzzy, but it just made me kind of think a little bit. The gist of it was, some people got arrested for having 800+ dogs in cages in one triple wide trailer.

First of all, I kind of laughed when they said that- I didn't even know they made trailers that size. Guess I'm out of touch with the mobile home industry since I moved out of Florida.

But my point is, is that the news anchor lady was just aghast at the conditions they found these dogs in- a few were dead, some had paws missing, cages were dirty, no access to food or fresh air, etc. I mean, she was totally outraged, almost spitting when she talked she was so intense. But my first thought was, was that the chickens most of America gets their eggs from are kept in very similar conditions, and I don't see the media freaking out over that.

Now, I didn't see the place where the dogs were kept, other than the footage they had, but I would say that they weren't in much worse housing than a lot of other livestock kept in enclosed operations. I think that when raising that many animals at once, especially chickens, there is a small number that you expect to die, you can't keep the place entirely clean all the time, and you can't make the big bucks if you let the animals do anything other than eat and grow. Thats just the facts of how we supply people with animal products these days, and I'm not saying that its right or wrong or anything.

I just think that people have a tendency to lose all sense of proportion or perspective when it comes to animals. There's a lot of "Out of sight, out of mind." Those dogs were exactly like sheep or chickens to the people that were raising them. They were not pets, and the only reason anyone cares is because they were cute little chihuahuas. If you are going to complain about animal cruelty, please, be equal opportunity.

 

[kstaven]

Before ANYONE choses to respond further to this thread please read the sticky at the top of the Predators and pests forum!!!

Respect for others OPINION will keep an interesting thread like this open.

 

[Biddy]

Animals may not be human, and while they may not be able to think in a cognative manner, they do have affection for others, feel fear, and suffer in ways we may not understand.

When dogs are killing chickens I do not believe they understand the chickens are afraid and suffer when being killed. For the dog it is a game or if hungry they are killing to eat. I also believe there are people who have come to lose the ability to empathize with the feeling of other people and creatures.

I do not think my hens are cruel (getting pleasure from causing others to suffer), by pecking on the lower hens in the order. They are after all chickens.

When we humans harvest animals for their protein we try to do it in the most humane way possible whether domestic or wild. It is in our nature to be kind and gentle to God's creation, but sometimes and in some people that has been corrupted. Sad, very sad!

I am just a little irritated when the term "sport hunting" is used to broadbrush all hunters. There are poachers, roadhunters, and unscruplus trophy hunters that are a bane on to the true "sport hunters". A pox on them!

We have two rules here:
(1) Be good to each other.
(2) Don't kill the chickens.

 

[quillizmightier]

The point in the original posting I would like to address is that predators are not inclined to the same reasoning as humans, and so we cannot take it personally if the 'do what they do'. This is a personal subject for me. We live in a subdivision in a town that has no leash laws for dogs. Despite this, we have a fully fenced yard and did our best when we moved in to shore up any areas where the dogs were able to work their way out.

By contrast our neighbors allowed their pit mix to run around town frequently. We were several times greeted by her on our front steps, growling and bristling at us when we walked outside. On at least four occasions it treed our cat. Twice, when our lab/rott mix got out, the neighbor's dog attacked her. The second time our mix drew blood on her hindquarters but this time we were able to id the area she escaped from and for months she was safely confined to our yard. Now the same neighbors also had a miniature chihuahua. No offense to anyone who has one (we have two chihuahua/terrier mixes ourselves) but this dog, all three pounds of it, is about the size of a squirrel, but yaps and bites like it's a doberman.

One night, my brother in law left through the back gate, and left it wide open. We had no idea of this until the neighbors came over looking for their mini and said they had seen our mix out. We found the mini dead with a single bite to it's back.

We were devasted that our dog had done this, and I assured them we would find a new home for her, as they felt having her here still would be insensitive to their children (who are friends with ours). No shelter in the area would take her without euthanizing her. For the three days following the attack she was never allowd out but on a 10,000 lb test zip line we have. At all times except bathroom breaks we kept her in because I couldn't stand the thought of them even hearing her bark. On the third day, the neighbor came over and demanded to know what we were doing with her. I asked her to give me until Friday (fives days after the attack) to get her to a place she would not be euthanized.

First she told me her husband might not be able to restrain himself from 'coming over and starting some physical trouble' that long. Then she insisted that if it were her dog she would put it to sleep because "It picked on a helpless little dog that could never have defended itself".

Now I personally believe that the reasons my dog did what she did was 1)She smelled their agressive pit on this other dog and 2) it probably was being an annoying nipper and 3)To a dog her size, this is no different than killing a squirrel.

What I do know is that my dog certainly didn't have the reasoning capacity to say "Gee I really shouldn't pick on such a weak little thing".

In the end, that very next day, I loaded up my six month old infant daughter and my sister in law and we spent over a grand to drive my mix all the way from TX to NJ where my mother offered to take her. She lives with four cats and hasn't hurt a fly since. She is sweet and lovey with them just as she was with our own pets. Despite my efforts to do all I could to rectify the damage, the neighbors refused to speak to us or allow their children to play with ours for the past nine months.

I feel this was ludicrous, inasmuch as they were attributing human reasoning to a dog. They plainly felt there was something amiss with our dog because she was willing to attack a weaker creature, whereas the desire to protect the weak aside from reasons of personal interest is a purely human trait.