Another wolf attack in Oregon

[Sonoran Silkies]

Land issues and wildlife issues in the west are complicated, and very heated politically....some of the issues get very extreme....

Are livestock leases on public land done at market value?
Are wild (feral) horse hunts justified with the argument that they are non-native species, but the same land is leased for grazing non-native cows or sheep?
Is re-introducing species, elk, bison, pronghorn, prairie dogs,wolves; good or bad? Is it good for hunters? Is it good for tourists? Is it good for ranchers? Is it good for the average citizen? Is it good for the environment?
Are wolfhunts from the air needed to protect moose/elk populations?
Do numbers support doe hunting in certain areas?
Do we protect species at the potential loss of jobs? Does protecting species create different kinds of jobs?
Do we sell timber at below market value?
Do we limit commercial fishing? Is sport fishing and guided fishing limited in the same way?
Do we support local milling of timber or ship raw timber overseas?

These, and many more are touch-button issues. The wolf issue is only one of many.

Chickened's argument that government ownership of wildlife means they need to pay is frankly a little silly. It is like saying that anyone injured in a park gets their medical costs covered by the city/county etc that owns the park.

The reality is that if something in/at the park was unsafe and contributed to or caused the accident, then YES, the city/county is liable; these claims are usually covered by insurance.

Quotes from state law were already listed showing that depredation by the wolves IS paid to the livestock owner. A question in my mind is whether they pay full and actual worth, and my best guess is that you would have to fight pretty hard to get completely compensated for the loss of say a prize winning ram or ewe whose value is far more than that of a less valuable ram or ewe.

 

[mom'sfolly]

Herfrds,

I took no position, I merely stated that the issues are complicated. There are a lot of vested interests in land usage in the west. I didn't even touch on mineral rights issues. I think you became very defensive with little provocation.

I do know that in my home town, more jobs would have been kept if the sawmill processed timber instead of shipping raw logs. I also know that ecotourism and high adventure guiding is bringing in more money than just about anything else in my hometown. Rural areas and that includes most of the west, need to rethink "traditional" jobs to keep population and vitality going into the future.

 

[mom'sfolly]

I'm posting this page simply because I found it interesting. On a national basis coyotes kill more cattle than any other predator. The next most common predator is our friend the dog. Nationally, vultures kill more livestock than wolves.

The most interesting statistic to me however, is the low number of killings by coyotes in the states that have high predation by wolves. It looks almost like one canid is overtaking another's territory. Those states are Wisconsin, Idaho, Montana. Wyoming has even number of coyote and wolf killings.

http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda/current/CattDeath/CattDeath-05-12-2011.pdf

 

[RHRanch]

If your animal kills my animal on my property you as the OWNER are responsible, what is so difficult about that concept? In this case the government is the owner which was my point. Listen to what you are saying it makes no sense. Or is it that if the government animals cause damage they are not responsible especially after they put them there? They pay damage for other wildlife to property owners only now that damage is from predators not herbivores. They have been doing it for years. Why shoulda wolf be any different?

Read the links they are from ORS; Oregon Revised Statutes

Everyone expects a handout, it seems.

 

[Nitrous]

We have like 5 wolves in Oregon. Why don't you complain about cougars? Not as politically charged I guess. Should we then allow anyone who is injured by a wild animal to file a lawsuit against the government?

If I placed the cougars in your neighborhood, then yes, if my cougars killed your source of income, you ARE allowed to have me pay for them. It is indeed the law. The Govt does pay the cost of the animal.

If my cougars killed your pets, you would certainly make a fuss about it. No?

 

[rufus]

If those wolves are so benign, why aren't they reintroduced to Washington, D. C. and New York City? But no, they have to dump them here in Arizona, New Mexico and now Oregon.

It is just another case of easterners and government bureaucrats having a great time setting a bunch of wolves on somebody else. What happens when they kill and eat a bunch of kids? Oh, sorry about that, here have some food stamps.

We can't put up a wolf proof fence around three thousand acres. When those people realize the meat they get in the grocery store doesn't just materialize, they may just re think the issue.

Rufus

 

[RHRanch]

If I placed the cougars in your neighborhood, then yes, if my cougars killed your source of income, you ARE allowed to have me pay for them. It is indeed the law. The Govt does pay the cost of the animal.

If my cougars killed your pets, you would certainly make a fuss about it. No?

There are cougars in my neighborhood and on my college campus. Some folks fuss about that and about coyotes killing thier little dogs. I have little sympathy for those people. They know we have coyotes and yet they leave Fifi alone in the backyard with a 4 foot fence. They might as well ring a dinner bell.

 

[chickened]

Herfrds,

I took no position, I merely stated that the issues are complicated. There are a lot of vested interests in land usage in the west. I didn't even touch on mineral rights issues. I think you became very defensive with little provocation.

I do know that in my home town, more jobs would have been kept if the sawmill processed timber instead of shipping raw logs. I also know that ecotourism and high adventure guiding is bringing in more money than just about anything else in my hometown. Rural areas and that includes most of the west, need to rethink "traditional" jobs to keep population and vitality going into the future.

Tourism created jobs are not family wage jobs.

 

[chickened]

If your dog did it you clean it up.

Everyone expects a handout, it seems.

Read your history... wolves were eradicated by bounty hunting and bounty hunting was the method used because wolves were not adapting to homesteading in the West. They were a threat to human safety just as the grizzly bear is today. There is only so much habitat suitable for wolves where they can live without human contact. The wolves that are causing problems should be dealt with and the folks that actually live with them were promised by the feds that they would control them. The government actually does cull wolves but the bleeding hearts are the ones stopping them and doing so for no logical reason.

 

[KristyHall]

If your dog did it you clean it up.

Read your history... wolves were eradicated by bounty hunting and bounty hunting was the method used because wolves were not adapting to homesteading in the West. They were a threat to human safety just as the grizzly bear is today. There is only so much habitat suitable for wolves where they can live without human contact. The wolves that are causing problems should be dealt with and the folks that actually live with them were promised by the feds that they would control them. The government actually does cull wolves but the bleeding hearts are the ones stopping them and doing so for no logical reason.

I can think of other things that weren't adapting to the homesteading in the west and faced mass extermination to it as well. funny though, some people seem to think the land is for conquering no matter what social and ecological destruction is done in the process, including removing key predators in a food chain like wolves, or entire civilizations of people.