antibiotics in water

[ryanroth]

Hello All-- I am going to ask this and know that I will probably get a wide array of answers from never give antibiotics to give antibiotics.... I was wondering if people put antibiotics in their water initially with the new chicks. As a vet I feel that it is a good thing, but is it really needed. McMurray recommended it. I have 39 coming on Monday or Tuesday. I only work on horses, definitely not a poultry vet. Matter of fact don't think I could find one very easy if I tried.

 

[gritsar]

I see no reason to add antibiotics to the water for chicks that are healthy to start with. The use of antibiotics in the absence of illness can render those antibiotics ineffective if and when you should need them for a bona fide illness in the future.
Fresh clean water is all that's necessary.
Some folks use sugar water if the chicks are really stressed from the shipping.

 

[speckledhen]

No antibiotics, 1000x no. Antibiotics for healthy chicks just starts them on the road to antibiotic resistance.

 

[DLS]

I use terrimicin? or the new powdered that took its place. I hane 100% survival rate when using the powder in the water. MOST ESPECIALLY in my quail heard . If you use it to much it might cause a resistance??? BUT I am not really shure that it does. IT works , IT makes strong chicks stronger & healthy. GOOD STUFF!!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I personally don't and fully agree with the other two posters, both of whom I highly respect for their experience with chickens and their ability to observe.

As a medical professional, could you please tell us why you would give antibiotics to healthy animals. Are you trying to say that all the publicity about antibiotic resistant microbes are just an urban rumor?

BTW, I have had 100% survival rate without antibiotics.

Thanks.

 

[ryanroth]

Thanks so far with the responses. I knew the antibiotic resistance would come up. I have only been a veterinarian for 10 years (exclusively large animal), but in those ten years, I will tell you that I have not seen antibiotic resistence to the common bacteria. I can list plenty of times that I have seen it. I will tell you that the only time I have seen antibiotic resistance in a clinical case was a severe infection that I had personally been treating for an extended period of time and watched the sensitivity change to different antibiotics as I was treating.

In regards to food animals who had been taking low dose (this is the key) antibiotics for their entire life, I have never had one present clinically that was truly resistant. Most of the time we had them on the wrong antibiotic to begin with (based on culture and sensitivity). The other reason we see antibiotic resistance is not because of the fact that they were on the antibiotic, but the fact that they were not on therapeutic doses. Story goes, oh I just put a sprinkle of antibiotic in their feed or a teaspoon in their water. What we really should be doing is a therapeutic dose for a specified period of time. In case of the chicks, the most likely time they are going to have respiratory (bacterial) disease is right after shipping (cold trucks, airplanes, front porches...) so maybe we treat for 10-14 days after arrival. Same applies to enteritis. We see a fair amount of bacterial enteritis in neonates as they transition to new feeds.

This being said, I as well do not believe we need to feed antibiotics for the entire life of a food animal. However, what I was asking I guess (vaguely), what is the incidence of enteritis, respiratory disease... in chicks who have not been given antibiotics. These hatchery chicks are being born in commercial operations, which more than likely do not shut down often to disinfect and clean and therefore could have higher incidence of bacterial infections.

Ridgerunner, that is exactly what I wanted to see, survival with and without antibiotics, where did you get your chicks, commercial or private?

I am by no means a poultry vet, that is why I am on here, to learn what people are doing and every once in a while throw out some science based answers. By the way, 15 years of college and 4 degrees for those that care.

Sorry for the dictation, for a simple question...And Thanks for all of the responses. I am really starting to like this forum stuff.

Thanks for all of the responses! Ryan

 

[Ridgerunner]

My 28 came from Cackle Hatchery.

 

[ryanroth]

To the poster who said not to treat unless the threat of illness, this is a great answer. However, in cases of bacterial enteritis or respiratory disease, I have lost entire groups of food animals because one day we had signs, started them on medication and lost the entire group. In these day old chicks I could imagine(remember newby) losing entire shipments because of being a couple of days behind the eight ball.
My only experience with poultry as a vet was during my surgery residency when I had a lady call me and tell me that she had lost 20 or her 25 chickens and she did not know why. I got ahold of our poultry contact and he said sacrifice the remaining 5 to diagnose why they were all dying. I am in the back of my mind trying to figure out how I could tell my son why I had to kill the remaining chicks so that we don't have an epidemic in the flock.

Remember an oune of prevention is worth a pound of cure! Unless you have no reason to prevent.

 

[speckledhen]

I cant see how antibiotics will do anything in a healthy chick except medicate unnecessarily. I have never, ever lost healthy chicks and I have never once given chicks antibiotics. I wouldn't even give antibiotics to an adult bird with respiratory illness due to the carrier nature of most of those avian diseases. Any bird who comes up with that type ailment here will be culled, pets included. Avians are different than mammalian species and can't be treated the same or have the same assumptions made, IMO.

 

[Soccer Mom]

I never give antibotics to my birds. Honestly, I'm with Cynthia. I almost always cull birds with respitory distress because it is so often something highly contagious in birds. It also tends to be very difficult to treat IMHO.

My fear is not necessarily resistance, but that they would develop a dependance on the medication rather than developing their own immunity. I see no reason to treat healthy animals with drugs.