Any BYC Christians? Post here!-Please heed Admin Warning in First Post

[speckledhen]

You can't reconcile old testament passages with the age of Grace, Paula. Today, "my grace is sufficient for thee" is what we cling to. Life happens, sometimes sadly so. I'm sorry for your losses. That is just the human condition, the imperfect body malfunctions then ages and dies.

 

[SpeckledRoo]

Quote:
Paula, there is not much I can say except I'm sorry for your pain, but God is not responsible. We live in a world that is sick and dying because of sin. God dealt with Israel in *"Times Past" differently from the way he deals with all of mankind today. God acknowledges that we are going to suffer while living on the earth, but read Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. Keep your eye on him and the hope that comes when we join him and not on the promises which are not meant for you.

*Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

 

[houndit]

Quote:
You've hit on one of the most misunderstood parts of scripture. Taken *in context*, which is the only way you will understand the meaning of any scripture, if you finish reading the passage, rather than just this part, it says, paraphrasing here, that you must use the same measure to judge yourself as you judge other people. If you are doing the same wrong things, don't look at others with judgement. Get your own house in order, first, on that one aspect you are judging.

And the Bible also says to "judge righteous judgment" and that "Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?". Also, "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?"

So, the "judge not" bumper sticker, which is what I call all out of context passages, is very much misused. I do judge, according to scripture. And I should, according to scripture. I can say "this is right" or "this is wrong" with confidence, if I have scripture to back it up. That is judgement. Judgement is not the same as condemnation.


No, we do not attend Church. There is no grace dispensational church in our area anywhere, so Richard Jordan's Shorewood Bible Church is where we "go". Remember, the early church started in the homes of believers. I think we're coming full circle from some of the things I've seen in our world today.

Wonderfully said speckledhen! I love the way you put that. Thank you!

 

[rancher hicks]

Quote:
Yes, many times we try to take a single verse and build an entire doctrine, idea from it or apply it to our situation literally. This Psalm is speaking of Gods greatness and goodness. While God "can" do this it doesn't mean he always will. Just as God is able to heal the sick it doesn't always mean he will. We see this w/ the apostle Paul and how he sought God for a healing and the Lord told him "my grace is sufficient for thee". The grace that brings salvation. Paul had to have faith that God knew what He was doing. Remember too how Satan challenged that the only reason Job loved God was because God had blessed Job and Job was rich. Yet even when Job's wife said curse God and die, Job would not. He trusted God.

Now you might say that easy for you to say. Yes it is because I accept my condition as God's will. I want to prove to God that I am sincere when I say I love him and have faith that He knows what He's doing and allowing not only in my life but my body. God's grace is sufficient for me. See I have not lived one day in the last 11 without pain. The doctor says there is nothing he can do. In fact three doctors have said there is nothing they can do. Does this mean God never heals, certainly not. In fact I can tell you about people I know personally who have been healed. Does it mean God doesn't love me certainly not.

Sometimes people think faith only brings about miracles and it can, but faith always accepts God's will. Like Gods will for our lives even when it's not what we want. The "Praise ye the Lord" at the end of the psalm, isn't a suggestion it's a command and so I do. Have you read chapter 11 of Pauls letter to the Hebrews?

"so I sing because I'm happy, I sing because I'm free, His eye is on the sparrow, and I know He watches me."
Hope this helps.

Always the best
Rancher

 

[Cindiloohoo]

I just thought I'd share this with all. I hope everyone gets as much from it as I have. I revisit it often for a bit of perspective when I get too wrapped up in myself instead of God's Will for me...anyway, not gonna ramble, it speaks for itself. I hope you all enjoy!!


“Lover or Prostitute?” ............... (Bride or Prostitute?)

The Question that Changed My Life

By David Ryser

A number of years ago, I had the privilege of teaching at a school of ministry. My students were hungry for God, and I was constantly searching for ways to challenge them to fall more in love with Jesus and to become voices for revival in the Church. I came across a quote attributed most often to Rev. Sam Pascoe. It is a short version of the history of Christianity, and it goes like this: Christianity started in Palestine as a fellowship; it moved to Greece and became a philosophy; it moved to Italy and became an institution; it moved to Europe and became a culture; it came to America and became an enterprise. Some of the students were only 18 or 19 years old--barely out of diapers--and I wanted them to understand and appreciate the import of the last line, so I clarified it by adding, “An enterprise. That’s a business.” After a few moments Martha, the youngest student in the class, raised her hand. I could not imagine what her question might be. I thought the little vignette was self-explanatory, and that I had performed it brilliantly. Nevertheless, I acknowledged Martha’s raised hand, “Yes, Martha.”

She asked such a simple question, “A business? But isn’t it supposed to be a body?” I could not envision where this line of questioning was going, and the only response I could think of was, “Yes.” She continued, “But when a body becomes a business, isn’t that a prostitute?” The room went dead silent. For several seconds no one moved or spoke. We were stunned, afraid to make a sound because the presence of God had flooded into the room, and we knew we were on holy ground. All I could think in those sacred moments was, “Wow, I wish I’d thought of that.” I didn’t dare express that thought aloud. God had taken over the class. Martha’s question changed my life.

For six months, I thought about her question at least once every day. “When a body becomes a business, isn’t that a prostitute?” There is only one answer to her question. The answer is “Yes.” The American Church, tragically, is heavily populated by people who do not love God. How can we love Him? We don’t even know Him; and I mean really know Him. What do I mean when I say “really know Him?” Our understanding of knowing and knowledge stems from our western culture (which is based in ancient Greek philosophical thought). We believe we have knowledge (and, by extension, wisdom) when we have collected information. A collection of information is not the same thing as knowledge, especially in the culture of the Bible (which is an eastern, non-Greek, culture). In the eastern culture, all knowledge is experiential. In western/Greek culture, we argue from premise to conclusion without regard for experience--or so we think. An example might be helpful here.

Let us suppose a question based upon the following two premises: First, that wheat does not grow in a cold climate and second, that England has a cold climate. The question: Does wheat grow in England? The vast majority of people from the western/Greek culture would answer, “No. If wheat does not grow in a cold climate and if England has a cold climate, then it follows that wheat does not grow in England.” In the eastern culture, the answer to the same question, based on the same premises, most likely would be, “I don’t know. I’ve never been to England.” We laugh at this thinking, but when I posed the same question to my friends from England, their answer was, “Yes, of course wheat grows in England. We’re from there, and we know wheat grows there.” They overcame their cultural way of thinking because of their life experience. Experience trumps information when it comes to knowledge.

A similar problem exists with our concept of belief. We say we believe something (or someone) apart from personal experience. This definition of belief is not extended to our stockbroker, however. Again, allow me to explain. Suppose my stockbroker phones me and says, “I have a hot tip on a stock that is going to triple in price within the next week. I want your permission to transfer $10,000 from your cash account and buy this stock.” That’s a lot of money for me, so I ask, “Do you really believe this stock will triple in price, and so quickly?” He/she answers, I sure do.” I say, “That sounds great! How exciting! So how much of your own money have you invested in this stock?” He/she answers, “None.” Does my stockbroker believe? Truly believe? I don’t think so, and suddenly I don’t believe, either. How can we be so discerning in the things of this world, especially when they involve money, and so indiscriminate when it comes to spiritual things? The fact is, we do not know or believe apart from experience.

The Bible was written to people who would not understand the concepts of knowledge, belief, and faith apart from experience. I suspect God thinks this way also. So I stand by my statement that most American Christians do not know God--much less love Him. The root of this condition originates in how we came to God. Most of us came to Him because of what we were told He would do for us. We were promised that He would bless us in life and take us to heaven after death. We married Him for His money, and we don’t care if He lives or dies as long as we can get His stuff. We have made the Kingdom of God into a business, merchandising His anointing. This should not be. We are commanded to love God, and are called to be the Bride of Christ--that’s pretty intimate stuff. We are supposed to be His lovers. How can we love someone we don’t even know? And even if we do know someone, is that a guarantee that we truly love them? Are we lovers or prostitutes? I was pondering Martha’s question again one day, and considered the question, “What’s the difference between a lover and a prostitute?” I realized that both do many of the same things, but a lover does what she does because she loves. A prostitute pretends to love, but only as long as you pay.

Then I asked the question, “What would happen if God stopped paying me?” For the next several months, I allowed God to search me to uncover my motives for loving and serving Him. Was I really a true lover of God? What would happen if He stopped blessing me? What if He never did another thing for me? Would I still love Him? Please understand, I believe in the promises and blessings of God. The issue here is not whether God blesses His children; the issue is the condition of my heart. Why do I serve Him? Are His blessings in my life the gifts of a loving Father, or are they a wage that I have earned or a bribe/payment to love Him? Do I love God without any conditions?

It took several months to work through these questions. Even now I wonder if my desire to love God is always matched by my attitude and behavior. I still catch myself being disappointed with God and angry that He has not met some perceived need in my life. I suspect this is something which is never fully resolved, but I want more than anything else to be a true lover of God. So what is it going to be? Which are we, lover or prostitute? There are no prostitutes in heaven, or in the Kingdom of God for that matter, but there are plenty of former prostitutes in both places. Take it from a recovering prostitute when I say there is no substitute for unconditional, intimate relationship with God. And I mean there is no palatable substitute available to us (take another look at Matthew 7:21-23 sometime). We must choose.

 

[keeperofthehearth]

Thank you speckledhen, SpeckledRoo & rancher hicks.

I appreciate what you have all said. Thank you Lord.

 

[Beekissed]

Cindiloohoo, that was a powerful message! Thank you!

 

[debilorrah]

Quote:
You've hit on one of the most misunderstood parts of scripture. Taken *in context*, which is the only way you will understand the meaning of any scripture, if you finish reading the passage, rather than just this part, it says, paraphrasing here, that you must use the same measure to judge yourself as you judge other people. If you are doing the same wrong things, don't look at others with judgement. Get your own house in order, first, on that one aspect you are judging.

And the Bible also says to "judge righteous judgment" and that "Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?". Also, "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?"

So, the "judge not" bumper sticker, which is what I call all out of context passages, is very much misused. I do judge, according to scripture. And I should, according to scripture. I can say "this is right" or "this is wrong" with confidence, if I have scripture to back it up. That is judgement. Judgement is not the same as condemnation.


No, we do not attend Church. There is no grace dispensational church in our area anywhere, so Richard Jordan's Shorewood Bible Church is where we "go". Remember, the early church started in the homes of believers. I think we're coming full circle from some of the things I've seen in our world today.

I LOVE you!!!! My statement specifically refers to those friends I have that are not Christians and live alternative lifestyles. I cannot judge a non-believer, that is for God to handle. What I CAN do is love them, accept them, and let them know my beliefs. And I can honestly say I do not have the level of knowledge of the Bible that you do. Someday I hope to attain that level, and it is a daily quest.

 

[Cindiloohoo]

Quote:

It's not MY message, but His thank HIM

I think I will print that out and blow it up to hang on my livingroom wall though...I need SO MANY reminders!!!

When you tote flesh 24/7 it's easy to forget it is just a biodegradable casing for the spirit. "To die is gain!" Glad you got something out of it...it hit me like a bus

 

[Beekissed]

Cindi, it took me 40 years to learn the facts in that message. Finally it all became clear and I thank God each day that it did. Forty years of wondering why me? Why do bad things always happen to me? Why can't God help me?

Thank God that my eyes were finally opened and now, no matter what circumstance may befall me, I don't have to question God anymore. I now have an actual relationship with my Lord and a deeper knowledge of just what that means. Instead of a taker, I became a giver....I gave my pride and my stubborn will over to God's will and the blessings flowed. I opened the gate on my side and found the blessings on the other side! Imagine...all those years.....makes one feel foolish for having taken so long.