Any BYC Christians? Post here!-Please heed Admin Warning in First Post

[SED]

Hello my brothers and sisters! God bless!

 

[PaulaJoAnne]

Quote:
I feel for you. The ultra conservatives are teaching a twisted Biblical extreme, of submitting and ruling regardless of sin, while the extreme other side, allows one to throw away the other because of sin.
Neither is Biblical. The church is to deal with sin and discipline as needed.
I worry for the families I know. What does the future hold for their children when they realize how twisted their teachings are?

 

[Tailfeathers]

Quote:
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "ultra conservatives" and "teaching a twisted Biblical extreme, of submitting and ruling regardless of sin". Actually the Bible is VERY clear on the subject. There are ONLY two reasons that separation is "allowed" for in the Bible. They are #1) Ongoing, unconfessed, unrepentant, actual physical sex outside the marriage and #2) when the Unbelieving spouse departs and wants nothing to do with the Believer. Number 2 is most often agreed that the Unbeliever in this case is leaving because they really don't want anything to do with God and can't stand to be in the presence of the Believer. Darkness decides it can't stand to be around Light.

As for "submitting and ruling regardless of sin", again the Bible is quite clear. Wives are to always submit to their husbands and are only to disobey when the husband asks the wife to do something that clearly is a violation of Scripture. One can disobey while still submitting. Husbands are to be the Head regardless of whether they want to or not. Husbands are to love their wives regardless of whether they deserve it or are acting in a loving manner. Wives are to respect their husbands regardless of whether they deserve it or are acting in such a way as to have earned it.

You are dead on though when you say "The church is to deal with sin and discipline as needed." Rather I have found that most churches do not want to "confront" anyone and do their best not to be confrontational.

My wife was attending a church that encouraged (some explicitly and some implicitly) her to remain physically separated and used 1st Cor. 7:5 as a “permission slip” to do so. That comes straight from a pastor who told me that himself. She attends Sunday Services, Women’s Bible Study’s, Home Fellowship Group, and other activities and all the while somehow thinking that she can worship God in spirit and in truth as He says we must. How can that be when 1st Samuel 15:22, Mathew 19, Col. 3:18, 1st Peter 3:1-2, Titus 2:5, 1st Corinthians 7:5, Ephesians 5:22, (and other instructions such as Proverbs 12:4, 19:13-14, 21:9, 21:19, 23:27, 25:24, 27:15, 31:10-31, Songs of Solomon to name just a few) clearly and unequivocally instruct a woman as to how to act as a wife. She and they say those things do not apply to her UNLESS I meet her expectations and conform to the image she has of what I need to be in order to live here.

All I can say is "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." On the day I stand before my Lord and judges me for the things I did or did not do for Him, I know I can't point to my wife and blame her for anything. I will be held accountable for what I did or did not do for the Lord. Period. My rewards will not be based on what my wife did or did not do. My obedience is solely dependent upon how well I walk in the Spirit and how well I avoid walking in The Fresh. The same will hold true for her.

God Bless,

 

[Beekissed]

I'm curious...I've read the verses a time or two but cannot recall the exact place or the wording...what does the Bible say about a husband's role in the marriage?

 

[boxermom]

The husband is to love his wife as Christ LOVED the CHURCH and gave Himself up for her. Eph 5:25 That is a HUGE responsibility for the husbands. Everyone remembers that the wives must SUBMIT to their husbands, but they forget the husbands' responsibility. Submission comes much easier when there is a loving and protecting husband. When the husband treats his wife as Christ treats the church, submission is done with pleasure.
1 Peter 3:7 You husbands likewise, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with a weaker vessel, as she is a woman; and grant her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.

Please don't take this out of context and read that women are weak and inferior. Women are different, but have the same reward. Tailfeathers, I don't know your situation and I can understand there is a lot of anger there. But, maybe if you soften your tone with your wife, she will be more receptive. Also, find a good christian counselor. If she won't go, go by yourself.

 

[Beekissed]

Well, that seems pretty clear and doesn't depend on the individual's perception of just what love is....clearly they are to love like Christ loves the church. Long suffering, ever forgiving, with compassion and understanding and without conditions. Unconditional love....wonder how many husbands can offer that?

 

[Rebel Rooster]

YOU BET I'M A JESUS MAN!
Because there has never been any man that was "more of a man" than Jesus was and is... when He was on this earth 2000 years ago and He acomplished something never done before... Has there been any other Man in history that was falsely accused of crimes, He Himself remain silent before His accusers and allow Himself to be tortuered and crucified all in the name of Love! This not a "religious belief" it is a matter of historical fact.
Am I a Christian??? Because of what Jesus did for me... "It is a matter of historical fact" I AM...

 

[Tailfeathers]

Quote:
I don't know any strong mature Christians who forget that husbands are to love their wives the way Christ loved The Church. More often I've found the opposite to be true. How many times have we heard, "Well, if he were loving his wife like Christ loved The Church she wouldn't want to leave." I had a pastor outright tell me that his wife has never left him because he loves his wife like Christ loved The Church. I told him, "No sir, that is not the case. Your wife hasn't left you because she loves Jesus more than she loves you." And that is a fact. No man ever has or ever will love his wife like Christ loved The Church and if you think you are then you are fooling yourself. Granted some men are much closer to that than others BUT nobody has done it yet.

For those who take the approach that no woman would leave a husband who is loving her like Christ loved The Church, then I ask you to tell me what Hosea did to make Gomer go become a prostitute. What did Job do to make his wife say, "Why don't you just curse God and die!" What did Uriah do to make Bathsheba commit adultery? What did David's wife do to make him commit adultery? And the most striking example of all - what did Jesus do to make those who reject him do so?

To the contrary, we see over and over in Scripture that we are called to do the unnatural. The first word of 1st Peter 3:1 is "likewise" referring to the command for slaves to obey their masters and not just the kind but the harsh. Sarah was blessed even though Abraham pulled a boneheaded move and asked his wife to say she was his sister. Yet Sarah obeyed, called her husband "lord", and was blessed for her submission.

I agree that "submission comes much easier" when there is a loving and protecting husband. BUT it is NOT easy. Every Christian is commanded to submit. Men are called to submit all the time. It is not easy. It may be easier but God did not command any of us to submit when it is easy. Quite the opposite. His word clearly tells us to submit when it is NOT easy! This is why men are commanded to love their wives and women are commanded to respect their husbands. Respect comes more naturally to a man and love comes more naturally to a woman. Yet God has commanded us to do that which is not as natural.

The statement "When the husband treats his wife as Christ treats the church, submission is done with pleasure." is in large part the problem with Christian marriages today. This is why wives are leaving their husbands at the rate of 3 to 1. The wife doesn't think she is being treated as she ought so she interprets that as not being loved as Christ loved The Church. True love sometimes means you give someone what they need, whether or not they ask for it, and not necessarily if they want it. Christ died for us while we were yet dead in our sins. We didn't want His love, His sacrifice, yet He gave it anyway. A child may need to be spanked and few, if any, will ask for it. NOWHERE is Scripture does God say "submit IF" or "submit WHEN". We are not commanded to submit if we think what we are being asked to do is right, if we agree with it, or if we like the way were were asked, or (you fill in the blank). We ar not called to submit when we feel like it . Obey or disobey. That is what it comes down to and Jesus said if you LOVE me you WILL OBEY me." John said we know that we belong to Jesus by our obedience.

If one thinks they can worship God in spirit and in truth and serve God while walking in open disobedience and rebellion, then they really need to think again.

As for 1st Peter 3:7, my wife left me right after Thanksgiving of 2008 and I loved my wife as Christ loved The Church all last year as I prayed for her and waited patiently on God, hoping that she, like the Prodigal Son, would come home. At am once again doing that now. As for the "softening my tone" and anger, I'm sorry if I come across wrong in typing what I've written. Am I angry? You bet! But I'm angry at the fact that people who call themselves Christians create their own God in their own imagination to suit their own needs and reject The Word of God. I'm angry at those who encourage my wife to continue in sin because I know that the wages of sin is death. I'm angry that the Marriage between Christ and The Church doesn't appear to look any different than The World's. I'm not angry because my wife left me. I have Jesus and He is enough. I'm angry because people think they know better than God and give flat out ungodly counsel.

As for "maybe if you soften your tone with your wife, she will be more receptive", I say two things. First, how do you know I don't have a soft tone? Second, that line of reasoning once again puts the burden of one's actions on the wrong person. This is the line of reasoning that says, "Well, if we just make The Gospel more appealing, folks will come to God." No, there is none that seeks God - not one. The Gospel is an offense to the Unbeliever and they are an Enemy of God until they are a Child of God. What makes someone come to the Lord is first God opening their eyes to the fact that they are a Sinner, doomed to Hell, and in desperate need of a Savior. What makes any person obey Christ is their love for Christ more than themselves. My wife has simply chosen to live in sin because she loves herself more than she does Jesus. It's really as simple as that. Most of us all probably know a man or woman who is living with a spouse that causes us to ask ourselves, "How do they put up with that?" The answer is simple. Their eyes are on Jesus and not themselves.

As for finding a "good" "Christian counselor", I wonder if many know just how hard that is? You would not believe (well, maybe you would) what I have heard come out of the mouths of some "Christian counselors". I am meeting with a man every Wednesday who is helping me and holding me accountable. My wife refused to meet with him and his wife. Rather she chooses to go to a church that will tell her what she wants to hear and lend her cheap misguided sympathies. All the while looking the other way to all those Scriptures I quoted previously. How many men do you think would get away with openly and continually blaspheming The Word of God (Titus 2:5) without someone confronting them?

The time has come when The Church, and every Christian out there, needs to stop allowing the blame game to continue and needs to stop believing that someone else is responsible for another's actions and behaviors. The Bible tells us that the Unbeliever will stand before Christ and will be WITHOUT excuse. It's time The Church starts doing likewise. If a husband cheats on his wife - she's not to blame! If a wife cheats on a husband - he's not to blame! If a man professing to be a Christian doesn't love his wife and/or leaves her - she's not to blame! And if a wife professing to be a Christian purposefully, intentionally, and willfully leaves her husband - he is not to blame!

Now if anyone can show me where all those Scriptures I quotes previously come with an "if" or "when", then I'll glad admit I'm wrong. Do NOT deprive yourselves one of another except for a time of MUTUAL consent. Your body does not belong to you. Submit even when it's hard to do and they're being a jerk (my translation of various Scriptures on the topic). Jesus submitted to a bunch of jerks even to the point of The Cross. Seems like a lesson in there somewhere.

God Bless,

 

[Rebel Rooster]

Quote:
Start reading in Ephesians 5:24-29

 

[PaulaJoAnne]

Quote:
I don't know any strong mature Christians who forget that husbands are to love their wives the way Christ loved The Church. More often I've found the opposite to be true. How many times have we heard, "Well, if he were loving his wife like Christ loved The Church she wouldn't want to leave." I had a pastor outright tell me that his wife has never left him because he loves his wife like Christ loved The Church. I told him, "No sir, that is not the case. Your wife hasn't left you because she loves Jesus more than she loves you." And that is a fact. No man ever has or ever will love his wife like Christ loved The Church and if you think you are then you are fooling yourself. Granted some men are much closer to that than others BUT nobody has done it yet.

For those who take the approach that no woman would leave a husband who is loving her like Christ loved The Church, then I ask you to tell me what Hosea did to make Gomer go become a prostitute. What did Job do to make his wife say, "Why don't you just curse God and die!" What did Uriah do to make Bathsheba commit adultery? What did David's wife do to make him commit adultery? And the most striking example of all - what did Jesus do to make those who reject him do so?

To the contrary, we see over and over in Scripture that we are called to do the unnatural. The first word of 1st Peter 3:1 is "likewise" referring to the command for slaves to obey their masters and not just the kind but the harsh. Sarah was blessed even though Abraham pulled a boneheaded move and asked his wife to say she was his sister. Yet Sarah obeyed, called her husband "lord", and was blessed for her submission.

I agree that "submission comes much easier" when there is a loving and protecting husband. BUT it is NOT easy. Every Christian is commanded to submit. Men are called to submit all the time. It is not easy. It may be easier but God did not command any of us to submit when it is easy. Quite the opposite. His word clearly tells us to submit when it is NOT easy! This is why men are commanded to love their wives and women are commanded to respect their husbands. Respect comes more naturally to a man and love comes more naturally to a woman. Yet God has commanded us to do that which is not as natural.

The statement "When the husband treats his wife as Christ treats the church, submission is done with pleasure." is in large part the problem with Christian marriages today. This is why wives are leaving their husbands at the rate of 3 to 1. The wife doesn't think she is being treated as she ought so she interprets that as not being loved as Christ loved The Church. True love sometimes means you give someone what they need, whether or not they ask for it, and not necessarily if they want it. Christ died for us while we were yet dead in our sins. We didn't want His love, His sacrifice, yet He gave it anyway. A child may need to be spanked and few, if any, will ask for it. NOWHERE is Scripture does God say "submit IF" or "submit WHEN". We are not commanded to submit if we think what we are being asked to do is right, if we agree with it, or if we like the way were were asked, or (you fill in the blank). We ar not called to submit when we feel like it . Obey or disobey. That is what it comes down to and Jesus said if you LOVE me you WILL OBEY me." John said we know that we belong to Jesus by our obedience.

If one thinks they can worship God in spirit and in truth and serve God while walking in open disobedience and rebellion, then they really need to think again.

As for 1st Peter 3:7, my wife left me right after Thanksgiving of 2008 and I loved my wife as Christ loved The Church all last year as I prayed for her and waited patiently on God, hoping that she, like the Prodigal Son, would come home. At am once again doing that now. As for the "softening my tone" and anger, I'm sorry if I come across wrong in typing what I've written. Am I angry? You bet! But I'm angry at the fact that people who call themselves Christians create their own God in their own imagination to suit their own needs and reject The Word of God. I'm angry at those who encourage my wife to continue in sin because I know that the wages of sin is death. I'm angry that the Marriage between Christ and The Church doesn't appear to look any different than The World's. I'm not angry because my wife left me. I have Jesus and He is enough. I'm angry because people think they know better than God and give flat out ungodly counsel.

As for "maybe if you soften your tone with your wife, she will be more receptive", I say two things. First, how do you know I don't have a soft tone? Second, that line of reasoning once again puts the burden of one's actions on the wrong person. This is the line of reasoning that says, "Well, if we just make The Gospel more appealing, folks will come to God." No, there is none that seeks God - not one. The Gospel is an offense to the Unbeliever and they are an Enemy of God until they are a Child of God. What makes someone come to the Lord is first God opening their eyes to the fact that they are a Sinner, doomed to Hell, and in desperate need of a Savior. What makes any person obey Christ is their love for Christ more than themselves. My wife has simply chosen to live in sin because she loves herself more than she does Jesus. It's really as simple as that. Most of us all probably know a man or woman who is living with a spouse that causes us to ask ourselves, "How do they put up with that?" The answer is simple. Their eyes are on Jesus and not themselves.

As for finding a "good" "Christian counselor", I wonder if many know just how hard that is? You would not believe (well, maybe you would) what I have heard come out of the mouths of some "Christian counselors". I am meeting with a man every Wednesday who is helping me and holding me accountable. My wife refused to meet with him and his wife. Rather she chooses to go to a church that will tell her what she wants to hear and lend her cheap misguided sympathies. All the while looking the other way to all those Scriptures I quoted previously. How many men do you think would get away with openly and continually blaspheming The Word of God (Titus 2:5) without someone confronting them?

The time has come when The Church, and every Christian out there, needs to stop allowing the blame game to continue and needs to stop believing that someone else is responsible for another's actions and behaviors. The Bible tells us that the Unbeliever will stand before Christ and will be WITHOUT excuse. It's time The Church starts doing likewise. If a husband cheats on his wife - she's not to blame! If a wife cheats on a husband - he's not to blame! If a man professing to be a Christian doesn't love his wife and/or leaves her - she's not to blame! And if a wife professing to be a Christian purposefully, intentionally, and willfully leaves her husband - he is not to blame!

Now if anyone can show me where all those Scriptures I quotes previously come with an "if" or "when", then I'll glad admit I'm wrong. Do NOT deprive yourselves one of another except for a time of MUTUAL consent. Your body does not belong to you. Submit even when it's hard to do and they're being a jerk (my translation of various Scriptures on the topic). Jesus submitted to a bunch of jerks even to the point of The Cross. Seems like a lesson in there somewhere.

God Bless,

What we are seeing, is huge numbers of people that believe that the wife is required to submit to abuse, because she is supposed to submit,and her husband is supposed to "rule".
This is what I am talking about. I was seeing a bit to much red, when I wrote, and did not make myself very clear.

This is mixing the curse of sin on the husband, and the what the NT says about a wifes role.
I can share more later, but we are headed out bear hunting in a bit. Freezers need filling for the next year