Any BYC Christians? Post here!-Please heed Admin Warning in First Post

[Beekissed]

We are having an interesting discussion on the SS forum about sparing the rod, spoiling the child and the above post is quite pertinent. There are many who believe that spanking is wrong and it doesn't really say to do so in the Bible but there are many verses, particularly in Proverbs, that state differently.

I know this is a tender subject and I don't want to start any kind of debate, but this is just one of many examples of how people want to turn the Bible to suit their agenda or lifestyle.

 

[Tailfeathers]

Yes that is true. It's just one more example. This is what many folks professing to be Christian just don't understand. It always comes down to Faith. Is God who He says He is or not? Can He be trusted? Does He know more than you do?

These are timeless questions and each one of us has to wrestle with them as God brings things to the surface. The problem is that The Church has become so much like The World that the secular psychobabble and man's wisdom has replaced God's. More and more mankind - including many professing to be Christian - are doing what seems right in their own eyes rather than submitting to God and just obeying Him.

God Bless,

 

[BarredBuff]

Just wanted to say hey!! And I hope God is blessing you extremely!!

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

May I ask a question?

I am a Christian, of that I have no doubt. But, must one go to church to be considered a "true" Christian? What if you completely believe the Bible, but do not wish to follow the church route? What if you are lax in some things, such as tolerant of homosexuality? Do these things completely negate any belief you have of God?

I cannot ask these things to my family, to hear that I tolerate (I don't mean to offend, it's simply the best wording I can think of) homosexuality would put me as the "black sheep" on one side of the family.

 

[mom'sfolly]

Several mainstream Christian churches are tolerant of gays. This includes the United Methodist Church and ELCA Lutherans.

 

[SpeckledRoo]

Quote:
In answer to your first question, no you do not need to belong to a church. Salvation is by faith in Christ, not in the teachings or ceremonies of a church.

I would not worry about the church route since most church routes are wrong any way. Your belief in God is yours, not the churches. Whether you follow the church rules or not will not effect your belief unless it is in vain and not based on the Bible. Some denominations accept all manner of sin as normal eventhough the Bible is plain against it.

As far as you accepting/tolerating gays, well that is a personal decision on your part. The Apostle Paul says in 1 Cor 6:12

All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

In the eyes of God sin is sin. There is no difference in the sin. If I associate with sin it hurts my Christian witness therefore it is not expedient for me to do so. But will it cause me to lose my salvation if I do? No.

You must ask yourself what is more important, your witness as the Christian you claim to be or your principles.

 

[PaulaJoAnne]

Quote:
Can you grow in Christ on your own?
No, you do not need to follow the modern church. We have forsaken it ourselves. We house fellowship with likeminded believers, who are determined to follow the Word of God, and not the latest designer church style.
But we will not forsake the fellowship of the saints.

You need to honestly ask yourself, what does God say about the lifestyle you want to tolerate?
Is he tolerant of it? Especially when He clearly states that it is an abomination?
If you believe so, can you back it with solidly with Scripture?

Can you say that you completely follow and believe that Bible, "except" certain parts?
Can you show Scriptural grounds for such a belief?

 

[Tailfeathers]

Quote:
In answer to your first question, no you do not need to belong to a church. Salvation is by faith in Christ, not in the teachings or ceremonies of a church.

I would not worry about the church route since most church routes are wrong any way. Your belief in God is yours, not the churches. Whether you follow the church rules or not will not effect your belief unless it is in vain and not based on the Bible. Some denominations accept all manner of sin as normal eventhough the Bible is plain against it.

As far as you accepting/tolerating gays, well that is a personal decision on your part. The Apostle Paul says in 1 Cor 6:12

All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

In the eyes of God sin is sin. There is no difference in the sin. If I associate with sin it hurts my Christian witness therefore it is not expedient for me to do so. But will it cause me to lose my salvation if I do? No.

You must ask yourself what is more important, your witness as the Christian you claim to be or your principles.

Well, here's where I'll probably alienate a lot of folks if not most. First let me say that you have asked a good question and perhaps THE question that is at the crux of the matter (pun intended).

I will try to simplify this as much as possible and at the same time try to keep this as short as possible. This question goes straight to the heart of the matter and begs the answer to "What is a True Christian?" Whether you ask the question can I do this or not do that or believe this or not believe that will ALWAYS lead you back to one of two things. It has to do with the 1st and 2nd Commandment. What one believes will either determine if they are a creation in the image of God or whether they create a god in their image.

This is then determined by the first word in 2nd Timothy 3:16. One must accept that The Bible is the inspired, infallible, inerrant, timeless Word of God and it is the basis by which we must make our determinations from. If we choose to reject any part of Scripture then we are free to pick and choose what we will accept and what we will reject - thus we then start to play God.

The question should not be "Does one need to go to Church to be a Christian?" but rather "If one is a Christian and the Bible clearly commands us to not forsake the fellowship of the Brethren, then why wouldn't you want to be in a good Bible believing church?"

PaulaJoAnne's statement "No, you do not need to follow the modern church. We have forsaken it ourselves. We house fellowship with likeminded believers, who are determined to follow the Word of God, and not the latest designer church style." is in truth not accurate or Biblical because The Bible must be the authoritative source by which we define what a "church" is. My own brother tried to tell me that he was holding church if he had a bunch of folks over for a gathering and they at some time during the gathering brought God into the conversation. If one does a word study on the word "church" it is Greek word "Ekklesia". This is the word the Lord Jesus used in Matthew 18:17 and it is the same word Paul uses in his salutation in most of his epistles.

Clearly Jesus, Paul, and others are referring to a specific body of believers where God has ordained a specific "offices", if you will, to govern the body and given specific gifts to the various members of the body. Even in the Old Testament we read a very detailed account of the building of the tabernacle with specific regimens that paints a picture of a "meeting place" between God and man. There is a significant difference between "church" and a gathering of Believers at, for example, a Home Fellowship Group or Bible Study. Submission, accountability, service, all these things and more are significant parts of belonging to a specific church. In Revelation Jesus addresses seven actual specific churches that existed at the time John wrote the Book.

As to the issue of homosexuality or any other issue it simply boils down to whether you choose to be a follower of Jesus Christ and accept what God has already determined is acceptable or not. Sin is sin - regardless of what anyone else says. Truth is truth. The fact that many may choose to twist the truth, deny the truth, dilute the truth, or what have you does not change the fact that it is the Truth. So whatever the "issue" may be, it simply boils down to whether you accept what God has said and choose to follow Jesus or whether you choose to be your own god and make up whatever you choose as you go along.

It is not the things you choose to believe or reject that will "completely negate any belief you have of God" but rather whether or not you choose to accept God. We are slaves to Jesus Christ and Jesus is our Lord and Master. We do not make the rules but rather simply follow them. Any effort to dismiss that is a sign of rebellion and an indication that we are choosing to be our own god.

I'll quote just a few excerpts from an excellent book that says it much better than I could. "God's work of salvation includes a change of intent, will, desire, and attitude that inevitably produces the fruit of the Spirit. The very essence of God's saving work is the transformation of the will that results in a love for God. Salvation thus establishes the root that will surely produce the fruit...(he goes on to talk about how he doesn't question the genuineness of one converted who does not have a full understand of Christ's lordship)... I am, however, equally certain that no one can be saved who is either unwilling to obey Christ or consciously rebellious against the lordship of Christ. The mark of a true salvation is that it always produces a heart that knows and feels its responsibility to respond to the ever0-awakening reality of the lordship of Christ." "The gospel of Jesus proclaimed was a call to discipleship, a call to follow Him in submissive obedience." "It put sinners on notice that they must turn from sin and embrace God's righteousness." "He taught that the cost of following Him is high, that the way is narrow and few find it."

So Rodriguez let me end with this. You say, "I am a Christian, of that I have no doubt." But then you go on to ask if your belief in certain things will completely negate your belief in God? 2nd Corinthians 13:15 commands us to examine ourselves and prove whether or not we are in the faith by filtering our life through the Word of God. I would encourage you to ask yourself two questions. First, "What does it mean to be a Christian?" and second, "Am I a Christian?"

As for me, it means that I have died and been crucified with Christ. That I no longer live for myself but to serve Him and bring Him glory. It means that He is on the throne, that He alone is Lord and King, and that I am a servant to Him. I deserve nothing (and thank God I don't get what I do deserve!), I have no rights and am not entitled to anything but gladly accept the grace, gifts, and rewards that He decides to give me.

And let me say just this one last thing. More than likely, a true Believer will be the Black Sheep of a family. See Matthew Chapter 10 especially starting at verse 34. If you're not finding yourself being unaccepted and an outcast, then you should probably ask yourself how much light you're shining and how much flavor your salt has.

But again, great question and feel free to ask anything else you want!

PaulaJoAnne, I don't want you to think I'm picking on you. We just disagree on the Biblical definition of "church" but I think when one looks at the totality of Scripture and considers the whole counsel of God, it is clear that "church" is more than just "the fellowship of the saints". Everything else you said is spot on though.

God Bless,

 

[PaulaJoAnne]

Quote:
In answer to your first question, no you do not need to belong to a church. Salvation is by faith in Christ, not in the teachings or ceremonies of a church.

I would not worry about the church route since most church routes are wrong any way. Your belief in God is yours, not the churches. Whether you follow the church rules or not will not effect your belief unless it is in vain and not based on the Bible. Some denominations accept all manner of sin as normal eventhough the Bible is plain against it.

As far as you accepting/tolerating gays, well that is a personal decision on your part. The Apostle Paul says in 1 Cor 6:12

All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

In the eyes of God sin is sin. There is no difference in the sin. If I associate with sin it hurts my Christian witness therefore it is not expedient for me to do so. But will it cause me to lose my salvation if I do? No.

You must ask yourself what is more important, your witness as the Christian you claim to be or your principles.

Well, here's where I'll probably alienate a lot of folks if not most. First let me say that you have asked a good question and perhaps THE question that is at the crux of the matter (pun intended).

I will try to simplify this as much as possible and at the same time try to keep this as short as possible. This question goes straight to the heart of the matter and begs the answer to "What is a True Christian?" Whether you ask the question can I do this or not do that or believe this or not believe that will ALWAYS lead you back to one of two things. It has to do with the 1st and 2nd Commandment. What one believes will either determine if they are a creation in the image of God or whether they create a god in their image.

This is then determined by the first word in 2nd Timothy 3:16. One must accept that The Bible is the inspired, infallible, inerrant, timeless Word of God and it is the basis by which we must make our determinations from. If we choose to reject any part of Scripture then we are free to pick and choose what we will accept and what we will reject - thus we then start to play God.

The question should not be "Does one need to go to Church to be a Christian?" but rather "If one is a Christian and the Bible clearly commands us to not forsake the fellowship of the Brethren, then why wouldn't you want to be in a good Bible believing church?"

PaulaJoAnne's statement "No, you do not need to follow the modern church. We have forsaken it ourselves. We house fellowship with likeminded believers, who are determined to follow the Word of God, and not the latest designer church style." is in truth not accurate or Biblical because The Bible must be the authoritative source by which we define what a "church" is. My own brother tried to tell me that he was holding church if he had a bunch of folks over for a gathering and they at some time during the gathering brought God into the conversation. If one does a word study on the word "church" it is Greek word "Ekklesia". This is the word the Lord Jesus used in Matthew 18:17 and it is the same word Paul uses in his salutation in most of his epistles.

Clearly Jesus, Paul, and others are referring to a specific body of believers where God has ordained a specific "offices", if you will, to govern the body and given specific gifts to the various members of the body. Even in the Old Testament we read a very detailed account of the building of the tabernacle with specific regimens that paints a picture of a "meeting place" between God and man. There is a significant difference between "church" and a gathering of Believers at, for example, a Home Fellowship Group or Bible Study. Submission, accountability, service, all these things and more are significant parts of belonging to a specific church. In Revelation Jesus addresses seven actual specific churches that existed at the time John wrote the Book.

As to the issue of homosexuality or any other issue it simply boils down to whether you choose to be a follower of Jesus Christ and accept what God has already determined is acceptable or not. Sin is sin - regardless of what anyone else says. Truth is truth. The fact that many may choose to twist the truth, deny the truth, dilute the truth, or what have you does not change the fact that it is the Truth. So whatever the "issue" may be, it simply boils down to whether you accept what God has said and choose to follow Jesus or whether you choose to be your own god and make up whatever you choose as you go along.

It is not the things you choose to believe or reject that will "completely negate any belief you have of God" but rather whether or not you choose to accept God. We are slaves to Jesus Christ and Jesus is our Lord and Master. We do not make the rules but rather simply follow them. Any effort to dismiss that is a sign of rebellion and an indication that we are choosing to be our own god.

I'll quote just a few excerpts from an excellent book that says it much better than I could. "God's work of salvation includes a change of intent, will, desire, and attitude that inevitably produces the fruit of the Spirit. The very essence of God's saving work is the transformation of the will that results in a love for God. Salvation thus establishes the root that will surely produce the fruit...(he goes on to talk about how he doesn't question the genuineness of one converted who does not have a full understand of Christ's lordship)... I am, however, equally certain that no one can be saved who is either unwilling to obey Christ or consciously rebellious against the lordship of Christ. The mark of a true salvation is that it always produces a heart that knows and feels its responsibility to respond to the ever0-awakening reality of the lordship of Christ." "The gospel of Jesus proclaimed was a call to discipleship, a call to follow Him in submissive obedience." "It put sinners on notice that they must turn from sin and embrace God's righteousness." "He taught that the cost of following Him is high, that the way is narrow and few find it."

So Rodriguez let me end with this. You say, "I am a Christian, of that I have no doubt." But then you go on to ask if your belief in certain things will completely negate your belief in God? 2nd Corinthians 13:15 commands us to examine ourselves and prove whether or not we are in the faith by filtering our life through the Word of God. I would encourage you to ask yourself two questions. First, "What does it mean to be a Christian?" and second, "Am I a Christian?"

As for me, it means that I have died and been crucified with Christ. That I no longer live for myself but to serve Him and bring Him glory. It means that He is on the throne, that He alone is Lord and King, and that I am a servant to Him. I deserve nothing (and thank God I don't get what I do deserve!), I have no rights and am not entitled to anything but gladly accept the grace, gifts, and rewards that He decides to give me.

And let me say just this one last thing. More than likely, a true Believer will be the Black Sheep of a family. See Matthew Chapter 10 especially starting at verse 34. If you're not finding yourself being unaccepted and an outcast, then you should probably ask yourself how much light you're shining and how much flavor your salt has.

But again, great question and feel free to ask anything else you want!

PaulaJoAnne, I don't want you to think I'm picking on you. We just disagree on the Biblical definition of "church" but I think when one looks at the totality of Scripture and considers the whole counsel of God, it is clear that "church" is more than just "the fellowship of the saints". Everything else you said is spot on though.

God Bless,

I should have been more clear. We do have elders and pastors and structure. Its just we regect the modern form of paid clergy and needing a building outside of our homes.
We meet as the early church did, without bells and whistles.

 

[speckledhen]

The first churches were groups of people meeting in the homes of other believers. I have always said we would come full circle as people fell away from belief and the gov't intruded into the church's business. A church is not a building, it's a body of believers. You do not have to have walls in order to be a church. My DH, who is an ordained minister, held a Bible study in our living room weekly for five years straight, lasted several hours each time. There was more "meat" in that meeting than in any church service I have ever attended. Was it a church? Yes.

1Corinthians 16:19
The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

Colossians 4:15

15Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.​