Any experience with lead poisoning please?

[Kimmyh51]

Hi, I have just had a duck die from what I suspect was lead poisoning and was wondering if anyone else has had similar symptoms, and also if anyone has treated it or had their vet treat lead poisoning with dicalcium EDTA (standard chelating agent used in lead poisoning) and if so, what stage the birds symptoms were at the start of treatment, and what the outcome was?

This is my ducks story...

The first symptoms I noticed with my duck were when she opened her mouth and I saw straight away her tongue was a pale yellow shade, like jaundice (but apparently birds dont get jaundice, so I think it was actually just REALLY pale mucous membranes, due to anemia?)

This particular duck tended to spend her time alone or in the company of only one or two other ducks, and was a very quiet natured duck. For this reason I think I didnt realise she was sick as fast as I might have with any of my other ducks.
After seeing her tongue and beak I caught her, which was far easier than it should have been and also a definate sign something was wrong, checked her over and found nothing of note except slightly dirty feathers around her vent. (On the day she died these dirty feathers were obviously green but not initially). I have had seveal ducks lately with similar symptoms who had some sort of gi fungal infection - all 3 improved straight away after being given nystatin (anti fungal) so I gave her a dose of this immediately and again the following morning. I also found very bright green poop in the run where she was and I thought she might have liver problems, so also gave her dandelion leaf in water which she ate straight away despite showing little interest in other food. I also gave her some coriander (cilantro) leaves just in case of lead poisoning as I live on a rented property and another tenant on the property had a family member stay who decided they were going to shoot lead air gun pellets right outside my duck enclosure, despite being asked (be me, with an explanation why) not to(what kind of person does that on a property they dont even live on?!)

The next day she seemed better, was perkier, moving about more and much harder to catch to give the second nystatin dose so I assumed it was a 4th case of the g.i. fungal thing.
However a day later she was decidedly worse, and throughout that day she deteriorated. She was still eating and moving about, and I put her mate (a rather randy drake who out of necessity had been locked up with other drakes ovee the breeding season) in with her in the hope his presance would perk her up. And continued with dandelion, coriander/cilantro etc.
Yesteday when I checked on her she was much worse, having trouble walking and 'wing walking' to try and get away from me when I went to capture her as her legs were too unsteady.

Later the same day she wasnt even trying to escape me?..

Though I had one strange event where my 3 imprinted ducklings (one of whom is actually hatched from an egg she laid when in a run with just her mate - so the duckling is hers and her mates) approached her and unlike their usual approach to the adult ducks which is either the duckling attacks adult cos it thinks its 6ft tall duckling courage thing, or the duckling cries out as if being murdered and runs away thing, these three just ran up to her, and the one who is genetically hers, actually, well, hugged her, dont know how else to describe it. Then the others did too. Not seen a duckling behave that way before. And she kinda playfully pecked at them with her beak.

It was the only thing she showed any interest in that day and the last thing she showed an interest in before her death. Maybe the ducklings somehow sensed she was dying...?

I put her in a separate run near all the other ducks, and gave her some more dandelion, some charcoal, some cilantro/coriander, some antibiotics (out of desperation), some tumeric and pepperment tea (for her liver which was still what I thought at that time was the most likely problem)and some duck egg yolk with vitamin B, C etc as a meal. She ate a little of the dandelion/cilantro and charcoal, and picked at the egg yolk.
Anyway I had to go out shortly after that. And got back later that night. I checked on her and could see she was much worse, she was not moving at all, and only standing with effort.

I could see she was probably dehydrated, and would have given her subcutaneous fluids except I had no sterile syringes (frustratingly i had purchased some the day before but accidentally left them in the pharmacy). It was now close to midnight and there were no vets open anywhere near me, even if I did have around $800 ($400 to test, and the same for chelation treatment) to give a vet to treat her.

So all I could do was try and give her fluids orally, which I did, she drank a little water and seemed a little better. But then she went downhill very fast, unable to stand, twisting her head and neck sideways, and then having seizures.

It was horrible watching her suffer and having nothing useful to alleviate her suffering. All I could do was keep her warm and cuddle her. After maybe 1-2 hrs of seizures, she finally died.

What breaks my heart is wondering whether, if I had a lot of money, or if I had made more of an effort to obtain some dicalcium EDTA, she might have been saved.

After extensive google research, I would like to try and find out more about lead poisoning and treatment from actual experiences, particularly the symptoms, suspected source of lead, and results from chelation treatment, especially anyone who has administered it themselves....

I am concerned that other birds may ingest lead also, either the pellets that this person shot, or some pellets i shot a year ago dealing with a rat infestation (I asked for non toxic lead free, and repeatedly said they needed to have no lead and be safe around ducks, and after buying what the shop recommended and shooting 30-50 or so around the place I accidentally found out the 'copper' pellets were actually copper coating over lead. It was impossible to find them in the ground to remove them. I also have some old corrugated iron with paint on it from a house roof, and an old wooden internal house door, plus a couple of wooden window frames from older houses that I have now after researching lead, found out possibly may have lead paint on them. So its possible other ducks have already consumed lead and have yet to show symptoms. If its possible Id like to be prepared and able to treat them myself if necessary.

One, because I don't have $800 per duck to treat them at a vet (I know the cost because last year after I found out the supposedly non toxic pellets id been sold were actually just coated lead, I called vets and asked the cost of treatment)

And two, because I live in a remote rural location and any vet is a long drive away, plus if its at night there are none, plus of course over christmas and new year most are closed anyway. And those open are even further away and charges will be about twice the $800 I was quoted due to being after hours/emergency service...

So my options if this happens again, are to watch helplessly, or to try and learn how to treat it myself and obtain the chemicals to remove the lead.

Can anyone help me with this?

 

[azygous]

Your story is heart breaking. Where are you? If you put location in your profile, perhaps others will be more likely to have pertinent information for you, as well as local support.

I've never dealt with lead poisoning. I hope someone comes along who has and can provide the help and support you are seeking.

 

[WannaBeHillBilly]

That's a really sad story, i feel sorry for your duck and angry about the reckless human who carelessly left led-pellets on the ground. I have heart stories about ducks, chickens and other pets that died from swallowing a cigarette butt…
I have no experience with metal poisoning in ducks, but i doubt that you or even a vet would have been able to save your duck. Heavy metals are insidious: Once the symptoms become obvious, it is usually too late and the nerves are permanently damaged.
However, if you want to stock an EDTA, it is sold here: https://www.bulksupplements.com/edta-calcium-disodium.html

 

[duluthralphie]

I am sorry you lost your dux. I think calling it lead poisoning is a bridge too far. It could be but I find it doubtful just one dux would get it.

Did you do a necroposy? Where there lead pellets in the gizzard?

It could be environmental orbit could be something else. Good luck in the future.

 

[Kimmyh51]

I am sorry you lost your dux. I think calling it lead poisoning is a bridge too far. It could be but I find it doubtful just one dux would get it.

Did you do a necroposy? Where there lead pellets in the gizzard?

It could be environmental orbit could be something else. Good luck in the future.

No didn't do a necropsy, didn't have the heart to necropsy her. I know that doing one may have answered some questions, but I just couldnt cut her up..... I have necropsied ducks but not her..


Her symptoms seemed pretty textbook and don't really fit to anything else i have read about. I thought seeing as it was only a few pellets shot that only one duck getting sick would make lead poisoning more likely. as opposed to any sort of contagious illness, or something like a vitamin deficiency or toxins in their feed or bedding etc... having said that, a couple of mallards have shown symptoms that could be attributed to chronic lead poisoning, and obviously as flying birds they are more likely to come into contact with that sort of thing....
however, as above, I washoping to hear from others who have had birds with lead poisoning and their experiences of symptoms. i also did read on one reputable site that was aimed at veterinarians that the treatment recommendation was to assume lead poisoning when a bird had the symptoms (the same ones my duck had) and initiate treatment straight away not wait for lab results.

i also read that edta will produce an improvement within 6 hrs which presumably in many cases would confirm lead poisoning before lab results came back, and therefore lab results would be used more to determine how long to continue chelation therapy, by testing until lead levels were acceptably low enough. Much of what I read from various sources seemed to imply lab testing was more about determining actual levels and monitoring the lead removal than confirming or ruling out lead poisoning as a diagnosis.

 

[Kimmyh51]

Your story is heart breaking. Where are you? If you put location in your profile, perhaps others will be more likely to have pertinent information for you, as well as local support.

I've never dealt with lead poisoning. I hope someone comes along who has and can provide the help and support you are seeking.

I am in New Zealand.....

 

[KCNC06]

I realize this is an old thread but wondered if anyone had any more to add on the subject of lead poisoning in ducks. One of our ducks started acting a little off on Monday evening this week (so about 3.5 days ago now). She seemed off balance, a little weak in the legs maybe. At first I thought maybe she had a respiratory infection or something but after bringing her inside and observing her overnight realized she didn't have any respiratory symptoms. No sneeze, cough, wheeze, snot, no rattling noises with her breathing or anything obvious. On Tuesday her balance seemed worse. She couldn't stand on her own and seemed to move around mostly by wing walking or kind of pushing herself with her legs but with her belly on the ground. (Not really ground because she's still inside, in the bathtub with soft blankets so she doesn't hurt her chest/belly. She has mirror ducks as company and seems pretty happy with these friends.) She didn't talk on Monday or Tuesday, she would open her beak like she was trying to quack at me but no noise came out. I started thinking maybe she got into some sort of toxin so I decided to try getting her to drink or eat some food grade activated charcoal. On Wednesday she started making some noise when she tried to talk but she's not very talkative. She eats some and drinks when I offer food/water but she's not eating or drinking as much as usual. Wednesday evening I noticed a small, black, oblong "pellet" in her poop. It looked kind of like a big, black sunflower seed only very hard. I asked my husband if he thought it was a bit of gravel or if it looked like some kind of metal. He didn't seem to have an opinion. I continued giving her charcoal yesterday and she did seem to be improving. She talks a little more and stands in the water as long as it's deep enough to support her body. She seems to enjoy swimming around in the tub and having flappy baths.
This morning when I was changing her bedding I found another one of the black "pellets". This time I decided to pinch it with pliers thinking that might tell me if it's metal or a rock. The pellet squished easily with the pliers which made me think it's probably lead. I don't know how lead pellets could have gotten into our fowl yard and don't know what to do about it. We do shoot sometimes but our range is downhill from the fowl yard, literally down hill - there's a 60' elevation change between the fowl yard and shooting range so there's no way lead from the range got back up to the fowl yard. I don't know if maybe a neighbor was shooting birds and bird shot could have fallen into our yard. No idea.
Unfortunately I don't think taking her to a vet is really an option. The closest bird vet to us is about an hour away and I'm not sure they treat waterfowl. Plus, I don't think we could afford a specialty vet bill currently. Especially if these two pellets aren't the only pellets that got into the fowl yard. We have 35 ducks and chickens (total) and if there were more pellets and other fowl ate them.... I'm at a loss right now and very frustrated. We don't let our birds free range on our property anymore because we didn't want them going into a neighboring property and eating something dangerous. Their fenced yard is almost 1/4 acre so they have a good amount of space to play and forage safely. Or we thought they were safe.

 

[WannaBeHillBilly]

You could expose one of the pellets to a gas flame (lighter, torch or range) and see if it melts easy. If it does, it surely contains led
Unfortunately there is not really much you can do for your duck other than encourage her to drink as much as she likes. This will help flushing out as much poison as possible from her body. The real therapy is a chelate treatment where she would get an infusion with some substances that build a complex with the led-atoms (literally creating a shell around them) so that they can be expelled through the kidneys without damaging the kidney-cells. But those medications are really expensive and sometimes do more harm than good.
I would add vitamin C to her diet, that binds some of the led too.
The bigger issue is your poultry yard! I don't know how you could sweep up all those pellets that your birds will confuse with grit and gobble down. You could offer large amounts of real grit to them, maybe they prefer that over the pellets. Or you could remove the top inch of earth and replace that with fresh one. Or - i'm running out of ideas… let's get some more folks on this threat:
@Magnolia Ducks, @Texag87, @Mimi13 any idea how one can remove bullets from a piece of land?

 

[duluthralphie]

You could expose one of the pellets to a gas flame (lighter, torch or range) and see if it melts easy. If it does, it surely contains led
Unfortunately there is not really much you can do for your duck other than encourage her to drink as much as she likes. This will help flushing out as much poison as possible from her body. The real therapy is a chelate treatment where she would get an infusion with some substances that build a complex with the led-atoms (literally creating a shell around them) so that they can be expelled through the kidneys without damaging the kidney-cells. But those medications are really expensive and sometimes do more harm than good.
I would add vitamin C to her diet, that binds some of the led too.
The bigger issue is your poultry yard! I don't know how you could sweep up all those pellets that your birds will confuse with grit and gobble down. You could offer large amounts of real grit to them, maybe they prefer that over the pellets. Or you could remove the top inch of earth and replace that with fresh one. Or - i'm running out of ideas… let's get some more folks on this threat:
@Magnolia Ducks, @Texag87, @Mimi13 any idea how one can remove bullets from a piece of land?

Sluice all the dirt..

 

[KCNC06]

I realize this is most likely delusional, but the only way to keep me from losing all hope. I'm a little hoping there isn't actually a huge amount of lead pellets in their yard. We don't really have anywhere else on the property where we could move it. Especially since we have 3 houses, the newest is the largest at like 8'x10', and they're all built on piers that are set in concrete. The only time I know the neighbor's shot pellets rained down into our yard was last fall and I only heard it fall in our front yard...and my truck...and roof of the house. I have no idea how we'd make sure there isn't more somewhere though. And if it washed in there from somewhere, somehow, I don't know how we'd figure out where it came from or how to prevent it. I know lead sinks, but maybe it could have gotten caught up in the rivers of stormwater that flow through our yard lately?
I've wondered a little if maybe it could have come from mulch or topsoil/compost blend. We've been planting and mulching along the property line trying to prevent more erosion from water runoff. (100+ acre forest next to us got logged and then turned into a tacky development.) We've been rather disturbed by the amount of broken glass and other oddities in the topsoil/compost. Mostly broken glass, but also some bottle caps and at least one Lego person hat. Seems they must not screen their topsoil very well. Maybe a couple pellets of lead slipped through their screening whatever.
So far none of the other fowls are showing any similar symptoms but I'm still feeling quite uneasy about the situation.