Any such thing as too many black soldier fly larvae

[TaylorGlade]

Yes, you absolutely can - and because its almost entirely water, you needn't concern yourself with the "by weight" rule so much. Watermelon, similar. Many of us offer things like watermelon chilled to help with heat stress - water, some key electrolytes, and of course lower temp.

and yes, 5# per week, if offering 50# of feed per week, as a general guideline.

Yes. We've been over 100 here this week so I have been offering frozen watermelon and cucumber but they haven't been eating it much. Maybe it was too much? Currently have 13 9 week olds and 3 22 week olds. Crossing our fingers for eggs on the older ones soon.

 

[jpalmatier83]

Here's your high level answer.

For thousands of years, as humans domesticated what has become the modern chicken, they (like we) scavenged a varied diet . Those birds were generally smaller, slower growing, and MUCH less productive than their modern equivalent. They roamed larger areas than people with enclosed backyard runs can provide, those areas were not monocultures of perfectly manicured bermuda grass, or zoysia, or St. Augustine, or whatever, and there was good chance they could also scaventge missed/slopped/spilled feed for other animals.

For many of us, particularly those with vanity flocks in their suburban or urban back yard, the ONLY thing our chickens eat is what we, their owners, provide them, and the only thing they produce is eggs - if we want them to be healthy and produce as many eggs as they are capable off - that means a quality, nutritionally complete feed.

For some lucky few of us, we can blend the old world with the new - quality feed to provide a solid base to their diet, and a large and varied pasture on which they can graze to round out their daily intake. Studies show that, given the choice of a WIDE variety of ingredients, chicknes are actually pretty good at balancing their own diet. The problems arise when they either don't have that wide variety, or the wide variety is nevertheless missing key nutritional components. Examples - chickens essently can't use phytate (that is, plant based-) phosphorus, so an all plant diet virtually guarantees phosphorus deficiency related problems. Chickens need more methionine than you can get in a plant based diet, because plants are poor source of that key amino acid. Same with B12. That means those who rely on free ranging to meet the majority of their birds daily intake are hoping and praying for adequate amounts of insect proteins - and the right insect proteins - to make up for what plants lack. Last century, some of those needs would be met ny offering meat scraps (its a term of art, not quite what you think it is), or offering milk (or whey) for them to drink. But of course, most of us don't have milk cows and produce out own cheese, leaving the whey as a waste product...

Its the difference between surviving and thriving.

I’m really not trying to be argumentative or pedantic, I just think it’s hard to measure balanced diet vs treats without measuring a birds living condition, activity level, normal feed, forage terrane, etc.

I agree with most if not all of your points.

I just missed where op said what and how much their birds range over. And I felt that I couldn’t determine what level a particular amount of BSL would determine feed or treat without that info.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I’m really not trying to be argumentative or pedantic, I just think it’s hard to measure balanced diet vs treats without measuring a birds living condition, activity level, normal feed, forage terrane, etc.

I agree with most if not all of your points.

I just missed where op said what and how much their birds range over. And I felt that I couldn’t determine what level a particular amount of BSL would determine feed or treat without that info.

Try this.

We have lots of studies from lots of sources over lots of years giving us a good idea of what modern chickens need as part of a balanced diet meeting minimum needs for moderate performance. We also have a number of sources, from a number of years giving average nutritional values of ingredients like BSFL. So, assuming we as responsible chicken owners do our jobs, and read the nutritional labels before buying, it's simple math to know how BSFL introduction to a balanced feed affects the overall nutrition.

And while we may not know an individual bird's activity levels, living conditions, available forage, etc (all of which may vary with time/season as well), the chances that an individual bird's unique (and dynamic) circumstances will fully and perfectly alter its nutritional requirements to match the known and calculable dietary imbalance from significant BSFL introduction to the feed regimen is vanishingly small.

 

[Red Mangrove]

There's zero reason to micromanage micronutrients for a free-ranging flock in a sufficiently natural and large area. Healthy chickens don't engorge themselves on specific foods to the point of sickness and death. My outdoor flock chooses what to eat and when. I trust their instincts and they reward me with far more food than I can handle

Only coopfowl need specific management in terms of nutrition

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Mostly agree - though there are a few areas which are remarkably low in certain micronutrients. Selenium, for instance.


But something you only need to check once (and possibly get your soil tested - once).

Its the "sufficiently large and natural area" that's doing all the work there. Most of the nation won't support a feral flock without human intervention, and most of the people in this nation do not have a sufficiently large and natural area to call their own. South Florida, South Texas, Hawaii are the obvious exceptions to the general rule.

/edit and yes, I ignore most of the micronutrients - I have land, its deficiencies are largely obvious to those willing to spend a few momoents looking - and I have had it tested (once). Likewise my water. Do try to make sure the macros are met, however.

 

[Red Mangrove]

Mostly agree - though there are a few areas which are remarkably low in certain micronutrients. Selenium, for instance.
View attachment 3622091

But something you only need to check once (and possibly get your soil tested - once).

Its the "sufficiently large and natural area" that's doing all the work there. Most of the nation won't support a feral flock without human intervention, and most of the people in this nation do not have a sufficiently large and natural area to call their own. South Florida, South Texas, Hawaii are the obvious exceptions to the general rule.

/edit and yes, I ignore most of the micronutrients - I have land, its deficiencies are largely obvious to those willing to spend a few momoents looking - and I have had it tested (once). Likewise my water. Do try to make sure the macros are met, however.

Selenium is very easy to OD on when used medically because of how little of it the human body actually requires. I would imagine that most animals function similarly, given the healthy abundance of life in all of the blue areas on your map

Fitzgerald Georgia for example is famous for it's multigenerational feral chickens and it's in the deep blue section of your map. I've considered driving there before to pick up a feral cockerel or two

 

[TaylorGlade]

There's zero reason to micromanage micronutrients for a free-ranging flock in a sufficiently natural and large area. Healthy chickens don't engorge themselves on specific foods to the point of sickness and death. My outdoor flock chooses what to eat and when. I trust their instincts and they reward me with far more food than I can handle

Only coopfowl need specific management in terms of nutrition

Mine are in a run. I cannot free range as much as I would love to.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Selenium is very easy to OD on when used medically because of how little of it the human body actually requires. I would imagine that most animals function similarly, given the healthy abundance of life in all of the blue areas on your map

Fitzgerald Georgia for example is famous for it's multigenerational feral chickens and it's in the deep blue section of your map. I've considered driving there before to pick up a feral cockerel or two

Yes, if you are in the deep blue section, you get your soil tested. BIG difference between soil at .2 selenium and soil at 0.02 selenium (both are blue on the map). If you are in the 0.02 category, you treat the ground to improve the soil, not the birds. Or, you choose a reputable feed with a vitamin premix that's already done the mixing for you. Worst case, you choose a reputable premix maker.

and dangerous dosing of selenium for poultry is something like 5 ppm - only a problem if you are offering a concentrated selenium source - starts impacting hatchability. Even 9 ppm isn't lethal, but does greatly reduce fertility (not permanently - they can recover from brief periods - weeks or a few months - of overdose)

 

[U_Stormcrow]

and you should also be aware that the wild chickens in Fitzgerald are human - supported. They had been released to the wild with intent of creating a truly feral flock (as exists in Hawaii and the FL Keys) and the birds moved to town, not maintaining a significant feral population where released. Oveido FL is similar, and maintains a smaller "feral" flock than my own small collection of birds. Bastrop, TX the same.

 

[Kiki]

I know that chickens are not supposed to eat more than 10% of their diet in treats. What is considered a treat? If a chicken free ranges, it eats lots of bugs. Is that a treat? Is there a difference between the bugs that chickens eat free-ranging, and black soldier fly larva? I guess what is considered a treat? Fruits and vegetables? Or anything outside of their commercial feed? If it's anything outside of their commercial feed, how do you limit a free-ranging chicken from the only having 10%

Anything you purposely feed your bird is a treat besides the pelleted or crumbled feed.
So yes, kitchen scraps, fruits, vegetables and black soldier fly larva that your purposely feeding is a treat.