Anyone have experience with whole prey for dogs/cats?

[Shellybean02]

I'll start feeding her a different meat source at each(of 3) meal. More if my mom buys different meats.
Every premade diet I've seen(aside from these) doesn't have enough protein for a kitten. Could you guys check these out and let me know if they make a good everyday diet for my Kit? http://omaspride.com/opaws-purr-9-pack/ http://omaspride.com/opaws-salmon-9-pack/
https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/whole_carcass_ground_quail_1_lb_fine_ground
https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/ground_white_fishbone_1_lb_fine_ground https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/ground_quailbonesorgans_1_lb_fine_ground
https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/whole_carcass_ground_cavies_1_lb_fine_ground
https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/ground_goatbonestripeorgans_1_lb_fine_ground
Sorry I know it's a lot, I've just looked everywhere and these were the only things I could find... I'd go with supplemental/ground food if it cleaned cats' teeth like intact meat. I'm considering Nature's logic canned cat food as well, if the high protein couldn't hurt. If none of these options are good for a raw diet, I'll just have to wait til she gives in to kibble and canned. It's just that I hate to see her barely eating because she's waiting for the only thing she likes. I'm okay with whole(/ground), kibble, wet or all! As long as Kitty is healthy and happy<3

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

I'll start feeding her a different meat source at each(of 3) meal. More if my mom buys different meats.
Every premade diet I've seen(aside from these) doesn't have enough protein for a kitten. Could you guys check these out and let me know if they make a good everyday diet for my Kit? http://omaspride.com/opaws-purr-9-pack/    http://omaspride.com/opaws-salmon-9-pack/    
https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/whole_carcass_ground_quail_1_lb_fine_ground 
https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/ground_white_fishbone_1_lb_fine_ground [COLOR=B42000]https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/ground_quailbonesorgans_1_lb_fine_ground[/COLOR]   
https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/whole_carcass_ground_cavies_1_lb_fine_ground    
https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/ground_goatbonestripeorgans_1_lb_fine_ground  
Sorry I know it's a lot, I've just looked everywhere and these were the only things I could find... I'd go with supplemental/ground food if it cleaned cats' teeth like intact meat. I'm considering Nature's logic canned cat food as well, if the high protein couldn't hurt. If none of these options are good for a raw diet, I'll just have to wait til she gives in to kibble and canned. It's just that I hate to see her barely eating because she's waiting for the only thing she likes. I'm okay with whole(/ground), kibble, wet or all! As long as Kitty is healthy and happy<3

A really easy way to help keep your kitten's teeth clean is by getting her used to daily brushing. Cats are especially prone to dental disease and early prevention can be a really important part of preventing problems down the line. I think too many people wait until their animals have a problem when they could have been working to prevent the problem all along. Unfortunately, diets (things animals have to chew) only help take the tartar off the exposed part of the tooth but does not really reach the sulcus of the gingiva. Brushing her teeth is the one thing shown time and time again to get in that sulcus.

As an aside, Cornell veterinary school has an awesome nutrition division that will consult with you over the phone. I'm not sure how much they charge but it is very reasonable in person so I'm sure it is even more reasonable over the phone. They will even help you put together a diet of home made meals if that is what you are aiming to do. If you want more info about that, I would be more than happy to send it to you.

 

[Shellybean02]

That's very considerate, thanks! Do they have a website with info, or do they only have information I'd have to pay for? I just think it would be easier if I had something to refer back to...
As for teeth-brushing, I know a lot of people have their cats chew poultry necks or ribs(the meat around them), and their cats never have teeth problem. But I also understand a misconception might be led by the difference between "great dental workout" and "leaves their teeth pearly white"
I'm still considering the foods from the links above, if they are convenient or if my Kit accepts it... she's losing weight in her face because she absolutely refuses to eat kibble. I'll feed her canned food only until I can get all raw, the sample kibble bag is almost done anyways.

 

[dainerra]

a couple things. meat doesn't clean teeth at all. A diet with ground bone would be more useful for that though still not the best. You'd need bones small enough to be crunched up by the cat. That is what cleans the teeth.

1 cup of chicken is 76% protein. So you could easily supplement a premade raw with diced meat of some sort to get the correct % for a kitten.

those are good meats but don't have variety of sources so you'd have to buy several different packages and mix them up.

Honestly, I would just go straight kibble at this point. Until you have worked out exactly how to source a raw diet. The cheapest kibble is going to be healthier for her than an improper raw diet. Cases like this are why it's so hard to find a vet that is supportive of raw - they see the animals that are malnourished with possible permanent damage.

 

[Shellybean02]

If she won't eat kibble with raw in it, why would she eat it without meat? I don't want her malnourished because I'm not giving her what she'll eat. I still have hope though, she almost finished her breakfast(probably because she had a late lunch today) so I think she might be giving in to the kibble. I don't want her to continue underfeeding herself, though, so I wanna try other options. Do y'all think she'll give in to Ziwipeak air-dried foods? It's made with raw but it's also dry, I might be able to rehydrate it though.
If I'm looking for 30% protein in a food for her, say a canned food, do I look at dry matter basis or as-fed basis? Because that would really change how I categorize all the foods I've seen...
As for the things you mentioned... yes, she does love chicken so I'll be happy to supplement any foods she eats with it

Also I did plan on including chewable bones for her to clean her teeth on; what do you think about bony poultry like quail? And yes, as I try new things for her I'll see other meats she likes for variety. Thanks!

 

[cassie]

I don't understand why you are insisting that she eat the kibble? What am I missing?

 

[Shellybean02]

I wasn't insisting, if anything I'd prefer to feed all raw or canned. She just has to finish her trial bag(almost there... just a few more meals). I was just saying, I doubt she'll give into an all-kibble diet now that I introduced her to raw(my bad!). I'm considering Ziwipeak and Oma's pride freeze/air dried foods, and whole/ground prey from Hare Today. I also would like to know if I should look at dry matter or as-is basis of the protein of canned foods, as I mentioned in my previous post. I really appreciate you guys bearing with me... just wanna get this right for Kit

 

[cassie]

a couple things. meat doesn't clean teeth at all. A diet with ground bone would be more useful for that though still not the best. You'd need bones small enough to be crunched up by the cat. That is what cleans the teeth.

1 cup of chicken is 76% protein. So you could easily supplement a premade raw with diced meat of some sort to get the correct % for a kitten.

those are good meats but don't have variety of sources so you'd have to buy several different packages and mix them up.

Honestly, I would just go straight kibble at this point. Until you have worked out exactly how to source a raw diet. The cheapest kibble is going to be healthier for her than an improper raw diet. Cases like this are why it's so hard to find a vet that is supportive of raw - they see the animals that are malnourished with possible permanent damage.

Dehydrated chicken meal may be 76% protein, but raw chicken is about 23% protein. The nutrient value of the chicken doesn't change but the amount of water in it does. The percentage of whatever is calculated on the total weight of the sample. Say your sample of food has 50 grams of protein in it. The 50 grams is the same whether the sample is wet or dry, but the percentage the 50 grams comprises will differ a lot whether the sample is fresh or has been dehydrated. The dehydrated sample will weigh a lot less than the fresh sample, so 50 grams would be a larger percentage of the total dried weight than it would be if the sample was fresh.

 

[dainerra]

it can take a couple days to let them figure out that it's kibble or nothing. But, if you are going to go raw, then it needs to be 100% from the beginning. Mixing kibble and raw is rarely a good idea. However, you need to have the plan for raw completely worked out BEFORE you start. Simply because a poorly planned raw diet is worse than even a cheap store brand kibble.

I also wouldn't mix canned with an appropriate raw diet. It's like taking a healthy meal and then covering it with spray cheese. Unless you feed one of the extremely high quality canned foods. At which case, why go to the trouble of raw?

If she's not wanting to eat it, just feed the trial bag of kibble to the chickens. They will LOVE it.

 

[dainerra]

Dehydrated chicken meal may be 76% protein, but raw chicken is about 23% protein. The nutrient value of the chicken doesn't change but the amount of water in it does. The percentage of whatever is calculated on the total weight of the sample. Say your sample of food has 50 grams of protein in it. The 50 grams is the same whether the sample is wet or dry, but the percentage the 50 grams comprises will differ a lot whether the sample is fresh or has been dehydrated. The dehydrated sample will weigh a lot less than the fresh sample, so 50 grams would be a larger percentage of the total dried weight than it would be if the sample was fresh.

My brain skipped a line. a serving of chicken is 76% of the protein that a human needs. Cooked chicken is 25% protein, according to the USDA. So it would still be easy to supplement a premade raw with additional meat to get the correct protein content. raw is around 21%. Or simply supplement with another higher protein meat, especially if you can dehydrate it.

But, most of the research that I see states that kittens need a food 35-45% protein.

http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/making-raw-cat-food-for-do-it-yourselfers
http://www.catnutrition.org/recipes.html
and this site is highly recommended http://www.rawfedcats.org/index.htm