Anyone interested in a possible Black Copper Orpington project??

[tberggren]

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Do you mind giving your opinion as to what color gene/genes has caused these unusual colors. The roo I know for sure is from a Splash Gordie hen and either a Blue or Black Gordie rooster.

All had the same sire's

Thanks so much

It so nice to have access to knowledgeable people

 

[Krys109uk]

Do you mind giving your opinion as to what color gene/genes has caused these unusual colors. The roo I know for sure is from a Splash Gordie hen and either a Blue or Black Gordie rooster.

All had the same sire's

I don't mean to be rude, but this has been discussed at some length.


https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=235724

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=235734

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=238984

I'm sorry, I don't know what is meant by 'Gordie'.​

 

[tberggren]

Quote:
I don't mean to be rude, but this has been discussed at some length.


https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=235724

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=235734

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=238984

I'm sorry, I don't know what is meant by 'Gordie'.

I take no offense, but regarding the first forum you mentioned; I did not think you had given your viewpoint (and yours was what I was interested in) Upon checking again, I see that you did make a comment which I must of forgotten. My apologies for not remembering. Here is what you said
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I thought I had remembered that someone had mentioned it was the columbian gene expressing itself I just wasn't sure it had come from a reliable source,

which is why I specifically re-asked you. Again I should of rereading the previous forums.

Regarding the second forum you mention, I think that was in reference to Lacie (who has a different mother)

As to the last post, I think that was left with me promising to get some photo's up which I didn't have a chance until now. Since it had been so long and I was pretty sure someone had suggested the Black Copper project that instead of updating that old post I would just throw out the idea of a Black Copper Orpington project.

Anyway hope that explains myself

BUT......

In looking through those posts I found the quote regarding the possibility of working on the black copper pattern.
And I was wondering if you agree with the quote?? Here it is;

The coloring on your bird is not a recognized color pattern. You may be interested in the black copper pattern or the brown red pattern. Google black copper marans and you will see the pattern.
Try here also. Tim​

 

[tberggren]

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Oh! Sorry about that, Gordie is the breeder of my Orpington flock.

 

[Krys109uk]

And I was wondering if you agree with the quote?? Here it is;

Hard to say really. The second to bottom does resemble a brown red from above but unfortunately she does not look like an Orpington. I suppose it would depend upon what genes you found cropping up when breeding. You wouldn't want columbian &/or dark brown columbian in brown red because they'd remove the black (or blue) from the breast among other places.
Black/blue Orps are supposed to be extended black (E), but if they were actually melanised birchen (ER) then if selecting the typiest birds & selecting away from melanisers such as melanotic (Ml), columbian (Co) &/or dark brown columbian (Db) & probably wheaten (eWh), one might get there.

Personally I'd see other possibiltes, which given the genes your birds appear to have. For instance, assuming your birds are ER, you also have pattern gene (Pg), what appears to be dark brown columbian (Db). If they were selected & were homozygous you'd have autosomal barring.

 

[aveca]

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I would think the goal would be a new color pattern. The dark hen, is at least half Orpington (only have Orpington roo's)
I know the roo is pure Orpington and so with the the blue and the at least half Orpington and the two hens from the original breeding a person might have enough to work with to work toward an Black Copper coloration. I don't know enough about genetics to know if this in fact would be possible or how much time and work it would take, or even if anyone would be interested. That is why I am throwing the idea out there. ;o)

I love it when somone takes on this type project. I would like to follow the progress . It is interesting to see if you can get the black maran color to breed true. Im sure it will take a while.They are Beautiful birds. I am no genetic expert for sure but there was a guy in europe who doesnt spend too much time on line, but he was talking on a thread a while ago about how many breeds they lost or near extinction during the WW1 and 2. One was extinct, actually many breeds became extinctor near extinction. Im sorry I cant remember the name of the breed, but he was trying to re-create this lost breed. I got so caught up in his story because it took special breeds to create the breed that he was after, the trials and errors he was making along the way, we were all rooting him on. He would run into wall after wall but was a determined guy.. I kind of lost track of him after our flock was attacked. I did ask his opnion on aussies in america and thier leghorn look, he said its a simple fix, X them back on lighter good quality black orpingtons , you will get exactly what you are after since importation is such a hassle, not illigal, its the foundation bird, and your making an improvement. he was a great help. Like I said, kinda gave up on it all after we lost the good show flock. Good ones are scarce and talk about hitting wall after wall, that is exatly what is happening to us. I just went last week to look at a lorps rooster, nice bird over all but one glaring problem, his wing pointed straight to the ground, thier wing is to be neatly tucked under saddle feathers. I kept moving him around thinking he was just excited that somone was near his hens, but no matter what, that wing just stayed pointed straight at the ground like a sebright bantam. too bad, I took quite a lot of money with me hoping to bring him home with me.

I hope you follow through with this, here is a site for rare birds ofitaly, did you know that over 220 chicken breeds are now extinct? including the beautiful bofa , too bad
Just some interesting reading, a bit off topic but important on how fast a breed can fall out of favor and become extinct even thou they have something neat about them .

http://www.ilpollaiodelre.com/i_polliIt1.htm

Here is one of their now extinct breeds, very interesting bird. This might have been the one he was trying to re-create great reading;
FIDENTINA PERNICIATA
It was a primitive breed with build and size of the Mediterranean type in build and size. The Fidenza Partridge had a single comb, white earlobes, yellowish shanks and obviously partridge-coloured livery. It is mentioned in various texts, all of which stress the breed's peculiar characteristic of laying very heavy eggs (70 g. and more). Original pictures show that the Fidentina does not differ from the Livornese (Leghorn) in any of the morphological aspects (Bonadonna T., 1951; Cornoldi G., 1948). Replaced by the multiple-purpose breeds which were introduced later, the Fidentina became completely extinct.

 

[tberggren]

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Hmmm, you see now this is why I originally thought that someone else (like yourself or someone else who understands what you just said) should have these birds to play with.

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Are you referring to all the birds or a specific one??

 

[Krys109uk]

Are you referring to all the birds or a specific one??

As I said, I shouldn't use the bottom two pictures. Fro your pics, I imagine you would be able to find those genes in your other birds without using those two.​