Anyone non-religious here? Please be nice!

[SunnyDawn]

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I think that the problem might be that PKs are held to very high standards of outer conduct that have nothing to do with who they are as individuals or even their spirituality. The pastor's children are seen as a reflection of how good a Christian their father is so they are supposed to be always display. It isn't fair to either the children or their parents and I could see how some kids would rebel against such expectations.

Bingo! I was a PK (preacher's kid for those who aren't familiar with the term) and I definitely went a little wild when I was a teen. It is just too much to expect a child to forever hold a standard that no one else is held to and to take whatever is dished out to you and be expected to smile through it all! It's not just PKs that go through this either. Most teens will rebel against unfair restrictions (I mean above and beyond the normal rebelling that is just nature's way of getting them ready to live on their own). Studies show that most pedophiles and sex offenders (by far) were raised in strict, religious and authoritarian households. I'm not saying that holding your kids to a high moral standard or dragging them church 3 times a week will doom them to a life devoid of empathy but when a child is made to feel like a horrible sinner for being normal and having normal thoughts he/she can internalize this and start to believe they are without hope so they just give in to the idea they are bad and it festers from there. So go ahead and raise your kids to be moral christians etc... but don't make them feel like horrible human beings for being normal or for making a few mistakes. Let them know mistakes are normal and that's how we learn. Also please don't make them feel like monsters for being normal human beings with normal reactions to hormones.

 

[SunnyDawn]

Quote:
I think that the problem might be that PKs are held to very high standards of outer conduct that have nothing to do with who they are as individuals or even their spirituality. The pastor's children are seen as a reflection of how good a Christian their father is so they are supposed to be always display. It isn't fair to either the children or their parents and I could see how some kids would rebel against such expectations.

It may not be a problem linked specifically to the religious aspect of the parent's job. Any household that pushes a child in a direction that it's not comfortable with, represses the child's freedom to develop naturally, demands compliance with some demanding academic or other targets of achievement with strong condemnation of failure is likely to create a sociopath. 'Mom, I want to be an art teacher'. 'No, we want you to be an eminent surgeon and you will be grateful for all the money we spend on your education to makes sure you achieve our goal'.

I remain a little stunned by the tales of religious extremism in the US. When I was a young lad in England, many years ago, and trying hard to accept the teachings of the church, I was also led to beliefs along the lines that only Christians could do good and that all non-Christians were sad lost souls, condemned to eternal hell fire unless they repented. There were even suggestions that we kids should evangelise. It gave one a warm glow inside to believe that our little band of self-righteous believers was going to heaven one day and that we were better and more enlightened than the heathen mobs. However, I soon matured enough to see that this was all baloney based on writings that have no proof behind them and distorted interpretations by leaders and extremists. Those views of mine fed on the insecurity of fearing that the teachings were flawed.

The extremism that I am reading about here looks like the deep brainwashing of minds that have remained immature into adulthood. Those people must be spiritually very insecure and in real fear. Their aggression is no different from that of extreme Muslims, Seikhs, Hindus or Jews. They destroy any real credibility of their faith and are a threat to the peace of the world.

Boy do I agree with this! We have one of our youngest son's friends living with us currently because his mother decided to throw him out of the house when he was 17. Her reason? Because he was questioning the validity of the church's teachings and had decided to study computer science or engineering in college instead of law or medicine. Her rational is since she has paid for his upbringing it is her decision what he chooses as a career and her decision on what he chooses to believe as well! He was an honor student at that time and went on to graduate with high honors yet this was not enough for her! He has begged her many times since then to accept him as he is since he loves her and wants to at least be able to talk with her from time to time but every time he reaches out she ends up screaming at him and hanging up on him!
She is convinced that if we hadn't taken him in that he would have been cowed enough by now to completely bend to her will. She is even angry that the police let him stay here but they have told her it's not kidnapping since we were honest about where he was and since she refuses to let him move back in with her. I think she thought the police would force him to live on the street! We have let him know that he can still love his Mom even if she is not rational at this time and that he doesn't have to buy into the ridiculous notion that "backsliders" will automatically become horrible murderers and/or drug addicts. I let him know that is is possible to keep the good memories and lessons we learn throughout our lives without having to buy into the negatives we learn from the same group of people.
He is a great kid but I worry about all the kids in similar situations that don't have anyone to fall back on. I also worry that he will believe that his entire culture is exactly like his Mother and her family. When he first came to us I asked him what her issues were and his reply was, "She's African!" (he was born here in America but his parents were both born in Africa). I tried to tell him that I didn't believe the problem was the whole culture, or even a segment of that culture, but that it may just seem that way because his exposure is limited to the ultra religious and controlling family that he was raised in. I really hope he doesn't continue to internalize this thought because it will affect how he sees himself and his culture as a whole. This will end up lowering his self-confidance and he has achieved so much, academically and personally, I just want him to know it's just not true! His Mom is the one with the problem and the responsibilty for that problem is her's alone.

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

Their aggression is no different from that of extreme Muslims, Seikhs, Hindus or Jews.

I kinda have to take exception to this. Just an FYI about Jews. While it is possible to convert to Judaism, most Jews do not consider the convert to be really Jewish. To most practicing Jews, you must be BORN to Jewish parents to be a real Jew. Unlike the sects of Muslims who think they are doing you a favor by "converting" you via the sword, Jews have no desire to increase their numbers through conversion and they don't evangelize. Thus their religious views don't generally have any affect on the rest of the world. Now Israelis are a different matter (but not all Israelis are Jewish and not all Jews are Israeli) and I often do not agree with their politics. But even they are not out to convert anyone.

Rusty​

 

[thaiturkey]

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I kinda have to take exception to this. Just an FYI about Jews. While it is possible to convert to Judaism, most Jews do not consider the convert to be really Jewish. To most practicing Jews, you must be BORN to Jewish parents to be a real Jew. Unlike the sects of Muslims who think they are doing you a favor by "converting" you via the sword, Jews have no desire to increase their numbers through conversion and they don't evangelize. Thus their religious views don't generally have any affect on the rest of the world. Now Israelis are a different matter (but not all Israelis are Jewish and not all Jews are Israeli) and I often do not agree with their politics. But even they are not out to convert anyone.

Rusty

Thank you for the correction.

I should have referred to the State of Israel. However, many might regard Israel as aggressive and it does regard itself as a Jewish State. It's aggressive actions are supported by many of its clerics.

My point about aggression went beyond aggressive attempts at conversion. Much aggression by religious groups is about expansion by domination and extermination. A person can be as religious as he wants but when he starts to attack other groups he loses the credibility that he seeks, in my opinion.

I don't agree that the religious views of Jews don't have any affect on the rest of the world. Some years ago a BBC Radio 4 morning programme gave 5 minutes once a week to Rabbi Blue who talked about morals and ethics through anecdote rather than dogma. He was a very gentle speaker, a man with great insight and who saw a tinge of humour in everything. I would look forward to his broadcasts and would say that he probably influenced many people who listened to him.

 

[Prettiest Frog]

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But even they are not out to convert anyone.

The extremist Jews (and they do exist) may not be seeking to convert, but they are still seeking to force others to conform. I vaguely remember the crazy cousin of a Jewish friend of mine and his little campaign to get the processing and selling of pork banned in their town.

I still consider someone an extremist even if they don't necessarily demand I convert to their faith. If they seek to pass laws to get their morality codified into law (banning the selling of liquor on Sundays is one such law, bans on gay marriage are another) I consider them an extremist. If all you have to base the idea that something is 'wrong and should be banned' on is your religious faith, it has no business being a law.

 

[deb1]

I had a funny thing happen on my blog. There is a group of Christian extremists who advocate a form of child rearing that has been linked to the death of two children. I and a group of other women have been blogging about them in an effort to get someone to pay attention. Many of the bloggers trying to bring attention to this problem are Christians, by the way, for which I give them a lot of credit.

In the comment section of my blog, someone wrote how wonderful these methods(that I consider abusive) were and at the end of their comment they wrote, "Come on over and experience the joy." (or something very similar) The poster's profile listed the small town and state that the extremists live in. I felt like I was being asked to join the pod people or join the dark side. LOL

 

[deb1]

Now that I have stopped being a member of my former religion, I find myself marveling at the strange things that I used to believe.

For example, the pastor of the fundamentalist church that I attended told me that it did not matter how kind a person was, if they weren't a member of his faith, they couldn't get to heaven. So, being good didn't count. But he preached that once you converted, God would help you become a better person. So, a 'real' Christian could be told by their fruits. That means that your goodness doesn't count before your conversion but the same goodness will be attributed to God-not anything that you have done- once you become a member of their faith.

To me, that doesn't make any sense at all.

It also doesn't make sense to me that God is supposed to be all loving and yet, the Bible describes him as jealous. Why would an all loving God be jealous or have atrocity after atrocity attributed to him in the Old Testament. When asked, Christians will say that they follow the New Testament, but then they will say that God never changes. What? That doesn't make sense either.

I became Catholic with the hope of clinging to the faith that I was loosing. There is actually a lot of the theology in the Catholic faith that I like but my basic problems with Christianity couldn't be solved by changing denominations.

 

[QuinnP]

I hate all forms of religion, my hubby is an xtian & he kn ows I will erupt if he preaches at me.

I get very angry at xtians mostly, some who tell me that they are glad I lost my children because I am not a xtian, some who condemn people because of their lifestyles, who dont know thatt what a person does in their own home is that person's business,

10 years ago, I had a fiancee, a dear, wonderful man. He was fired from a job because his boss was one of those knuckle dragging bible thumpers. It was a job at a motel doing maintenance, nothing to do with religion. He kept nagging, nagging, nagging my fiancee, & when Leonard told him to please stop, he was fired. January 5, 2000, Leonard was despondent over his loss & he took his own life. In August of that year the daughter we had together was taken from me because I was not coping with the death very well. She was 5 months old when he died, never got to meet him.

Thats only one reason, I have several more.

bitter, angry, yes I am.

 

[deb1]

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I am so sorry.

How horrible that someone would tell you that because you do not share their belief that they are happy for the loss of your children.

 

[QuinnP]

if I ever say anything that offends anyone, please tell me. I'm not a mean person & dont want to hurt any feelings. Xtians as individual people (most of them) are kind & wonderful.