Anyone non-religious here? Please be nice!
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It sure seems to me the pagan or altenative belief threads are the ones that can have ongoing discussions without going belly up despite differing beliefs.
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No it never hurts to pray.
I too wish rain for you and your land (just as soon as the roof for the chicken coop is completed). Thank you for the links you provided. Being a great admirer of asian spirituality (though not of asian descent) I was surprised by the statement that you were responding to and appreciated the gentle answer you provided.
I have not been offended by anything I have read here, however I notice that the Mods have been very busy in helping it stay that way and I would like to say that I appreciate their efforts very much! This thread is not for everyone and I don't mind if someone finds that reading the open thoughts of others on this thread bothers them and that they are more comfortable elsewhere. That is as it should be.
There have been many times I have seen comments on this forum (on other threads) that have offended me deeply and I have seen much bashing of earth-based religions etc. on these threads that I am sure causes much offense to some of the folks here on BYC and that gives me great pain. I have not, however, ever felt like it was my right to tell these folks that they are wrong or to protest that their beliefs have hurt me because they differ from mine. I have just left that thread never to return and left them to their opinions (they have as much a right to them as I have to mine). I think that those of us that believe differently from our very vocal religious friends often spend a great deal of time going out of our way to not offend when that courtesy is not always returned.
I am also happy to see so many open-minded christians on this thread, as well, that are very accepting of our frank discussions/views and have been very respectful of other's rights to feel what they feel and to speak their minds about it. They have, at the same time, felt the freedom to reiterate their own beliefs respectfully and without judgement. I have great respect for you all. It helps me to remember that the ones we often see that are pushing their religion "down our throats" are not the rule but are just very loud and therefore hard to ignore (even if they are the minority). We need to be careful to not assume all christians are like that and you help remind us of that fact. Thank you.
The heartfelt feelings I have seen poured out on the pages of this thread have touched me deeply and, although yes they may not be for everyone, they are neccessary. For these folks to finally have a safe place to express them is a precious gift and I thank Redux and the moderators for giving us such a special gift. Most of us on these pages have never been given the freedom to express these ideas safely and I, for one, greatly appreciate it!!!
THANK YOU SO MUCH!
and more
No it never hurts to pray.
I have not been offended by anything I have read here, however I notice that the Mods have been very busy in helping it stay that way and I would like to say that I appreciate their efforts very much! This thread is not for everyone and I don't mind if someone finds that reading the open thoughts of others on this thread bothers them and that they are more comfortable elsewhere. That is as it should be.
There have been many times I have seen comments on this forum (on other threads) that have offended me deeply and I have seen much bashing of earth-based religions etc. on these threads that I am sure causes much offense to some of the folks here on BYC and that gives me great pain. I have not, however, ever felt like it was my right to tell these folks that they are wrong or to protest that their beliefs have hurt me because they differ from mine. I have just left that thread never to return and left them to their opinions (they have as much a right to them as I have to mine). I think that those of us that believe differently from our very vocal religious friends often spend a great deal of time going out of our way to not offend when that courtesy is not always returned.
I am also happy to see so many open-minded christians on this thread, as well, that are very accepting of our frank discussions/views and have been very respectful of other's rights to feel what they feel and to speak their minds about it. They have, at the same time, felt the freedom to reiterate their own beliefs respectfully and without judgement. I have great respect for you all. It helps me to remember that the ones we often see that are pushing their religion "down our throats" are not the rule but are just very loud and therefore hard to ignore (even if they are the minority). We need to be careful to not assume all christians are like that and you help remind us of that fact. Thank you.
The heartfelt feelings I have seen poured out on the pages of this thread have touched me deeply and, although yes they may not be for everyone, they are neccessary. For these folks to finally have a safe place to express them is a precious gift and I thank Redux and the moderators for giving us such a special gift. Most of us on these pages have never been given the freedom to express these ideas safely and I, for one, greatly appreciate it!!!
THANK YOU SO MUCH!
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- Jun 12, 2009
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One of my best friends is very religious and her father is a preacher. We get along very well neither of us tries to convert one another. We respect each other's beliefs. She said that if I ever change my mind I know where to reach her.
One question though for the atheists or non god believers What do you say when someone asks you to pray for them when they are sick or going through some tough times. People always say pray for me because such and such and I just don't know how to respond. I say I will, but I never pray. I wish them all the luck, but I am unsure of how to tell them that I don't pray, but I want them to get well or have better luck. Or when people say I will pray for you I just say thanks so much for your concern which I thinks works pretty well. I am glad that they think that much of me to include me in their prayers.
One question though for the atheists or non god believers What do you say when someone asks you to pray for them when they are sick or going through some tough times. People always say pray for me because such and such and I just don't know how to respond. I say I will, but I never pray. I wish them all the luck, but I am unsure of how to tell them that I don't pray, but I want them to get well or have better luck. Or when people say I will pray for you I just say thanks so much for your concern which I thinks works pretty well. I am glad that they think that much of me to include me in their prayers.
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- Mar 21, 2009
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That is pretty much what I do too, tonini. I say that I will pray for them or that I will be thinking of them. If they say they will pray for me, I am gracious and thank them. I did try to have a conversation with my MIL about prayers several weeks ago (I had posted this to the Christian thread and decided to delete it when the thread first started). She is a person that prays literally at the drop of a hat for the most mundane of things, including things like that her meal will be cooked properly. She is constantly trying to get us to stop and pray while doing things together, sometimes at the most random of moments.
Long story shorter- I finally said to her that I have a hard time believing God cares about things like us getting stuck in traffic and yet doesn't care about all the thousands of children that die every day. I can simply not reconcile that with my idea of what "God" would be if God exists. If we accept that God answers prayers, we have to accept that sometimes God doesn't answer prayers. That is a really moral dilemma for me in my belief. Anyway, I thought she was understanding my point of view and instead she went to my DH and told him I am mentally ill and Satanic!
Long story shorter- I finally said to her that I have a hard time believing God cares about things like us getting stuck in traffic and yet doesn't care about all the thousands of children that die every day. I can simply not reconcile that with my idea of what "God" would be if God exists. If we accept that God answers prayers, we have to accept that sometimes God doesn't answer prayers. That is a really moral dilemma for me in my belief. Anyway, I thought she was understanding my point of view and instead she went to my DH and told him I am mentally ill and Satanic!
It sounds like most of the non-religious people on this thread came to it through religion, if that makes sense? It sounds like that for most of us, it has been a process of learning, filtering and deciding. I think in some ways, this makes people more tolerant of other views. There just aren't that many evangelical atheists or agnostics around. Being a skeptic actually makes you questions more, and often allows you to believe that things aren't always what they seem.
In my case, I discussed issues of religion often in my own head. It's nice to be able to discuss them with actual people.
I'm very careful about what I say about my beliefs or lack thereof in public. Here in the Bible belt, not believing is unthinkable to many people, and it definitely puts me in a minority.
In my case, I discussed issues of religion often in my own head. It's nice to be able to discuss them with actual people.
Was anyone here brought up in a non-religious household? If so, do you remember how you were taught to be moral?
I only have a couple of non-religious friends who were brought up in a secular household. We've never had any in depth discussions about it or anything, but when it was brought up, they said their parents were very big on discussions centering around how your actions can hurt or make someone feel good, the language changing based on the age of the child. Like, "You know how sad it made you feel when "Bob" wouldn't share his truck with you? That's how you make other people feel when you don't share with them . . . " that sort of thing. They said every time they did something bad, they had a discussion with their parents until they could see how the other party felt in the situation. These people grew into the most understanding, good people, and I'm wondering if that's the norm for non-religious households - focusing on discussion and understanding rather than threats, supernatural or otherwise.
One other thing I've noticed about these two is they are much more open about religion than most other non-religious folks I know. Growing up in a secular household, I guess they were never put in a position where they had to go on the defensive, so when people try to convert them it doesn't bother them as much, even when the person is invasive and confrontational. They're also much less inclined to have religious discussions in general, but much more open about their lack of beliefs in mixed company, should someone ask. I'm wording this wrong, I know it, but I have noticed a difference in their attitudes compared to the attitudes of other non-religious friends that came from a religious background, and I just thought it was interesting.
I only have a couple of non-religious friends who were brought up in a secular household. We've never had any in depth discussions about it or anything, but when it was brought up, they said their parents were very big on discussions centering around how your actions can hurt or make someone feel good, the language changing based on the age of the child. Like, "You know how sad it made you feel when "Bob" wouldn't share his truck with you? That's how you make other people feel when you don't share with them . . . " that sort of thing. They said every time they did something bad, they had a discussion with their parents until they could see how the other party felt in the situation. These people grew into the most understanding, good people, and I'm wondering if that's the norm for non-religious households - focusing on discussion and understanding rather than threats, supernatural or otherwise.
One other thing I've noticed about these two is they are much more open about religion than most other non-religious folks I know. Growing up in a secular household, I guess they were never put in a position where they had to go on the defensive, so when people try to convert them it doesn't bother them as much, even when the person is invasive and confrontational. They're also much less inclined to have religious discussions in general, but much more open about their lack of beliefs in mixed company, should someone ask. I'm wording this wrong, I know it, but I have noticed a difference in their attitudes compared to the attitudes of other non-religious friends that came from a religious background, and I just thought it was interesting.
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I am so sorry you had to hear something that hateful from someone so close to you! It's comments like that that cause the strong feelings many have posted on this thread. I'm afraid there is no logical way to deal with someone that is inherently illogical. If you tried again you would most likely get another irrational response (or your Dh would). Her reaction is most likely an expression of hurt feelings because you didn't agree with her and it is easier for some people to hide behind superstition and attack then it is for them to be reasonable and talk things out.
She may mellow after thinking on it a bit. Showing you appreciate some of her other qualities can sometimes help. One can hope. In the meantime you can talk to us!
Tonini, I have learned to equate good thoughts with their term prayer. Although I cannot pray to a being I don't believe in, I can certainly wish the best for others and appreciate that they wish the best for me. I would call it "putting out good energy" but they mean well when they say they will pray for you. If the situation becomes extreme, like the one that CityChicker describes, I will speak out loud about my beliefs. I feel like I have to be true to myself as well.
Yes I have gotten a few negative reactions, not unlike the one CityChicker describes above but I just smile and tell them that I respect their right to their beliefs even if I don't share them. Strange but people like this don't seem to appreciate it when I smile at them and react calmly to their outbursts...
But then again I won't lie about my beliefs to make others happy. I will apologize if they were offended by my expressing them but I won't apologize for my beliefs or stop the statements when they get pushy.
There are many young souls on the planet and I feel sorry for many of them but I am also encouraged by the fact that they have time to grow!
I am so sorry you had to hear something that hateful from someone so close to you! It's comments like that that cause the strong feelings many have posted on this thread. I'm afraid there is no logical way to deal with someone that is inherently illogical. If you tried again you would most likely get another irrational response (or your Dh would). Her reaction is most likely an expression of hurt feelings because you didn't agree with her and it is easier for some people to hide behind superstition and attack then it is for them to be reasonable and talk things out.
She may mellow after thinking on it a bit. Showing you appreciate some of her other qualities can sometimes help. One can hope. In the meantime you can talk to us!
Tonini, I have learned to equate good thoughts with their term prayer. Although I cannot pray to a being I don't believe in, I can certainly wish the best for others and appreciate that they wish the best for me. I would call it "putting out good energy" but they mean well when they say they will pray for you. If the situation becomes extreme, like the one that CityChicker describes, I will speak out loud about my beliefs. I feel like I have to be true to myself as well.
Yes I have gotten a few negative reactions, not unlike the one CityChicker describes above but I just smile and tell them that I respect their right to their beliefs even if I don't share them. Strange but people like this don't seem to appreciate it when I smile at them and react calmly to their outbursts...
There are many young souls on the planet and I feel sorry for many of them but I am also encouraged by the fact that they have time to grow!
mom'sfolly :
It sounds like most of the non-religious people on this thread came to it through religion, if that makes sense? It sounds like that for most of us, it has been a process of learning, filtering and deciding. I think in some ways, this makes people more tolerant of other views. There just aren't that many evangelical atheists or agnostics around. Being a skeptic actually makes you questions more, and often allows you to believe that things aren't always what they seem.
In my case, I discussed issues of religion often in my own head. It's nice to be able to discuss them with actual people.
I'm very careful about what I say about my beliefs or lack thereof in public. Here in the Bible belt, not believing is unthinkable to many people, and it definitely puts me in a minority.
I feel for you there in the bible belt. Life is hard enough. Oh well at least you have yourself to talk to and as someone once said "I talk to myself because it's the only chance I have for an intelligent conversation." Had to paraphrase since I don't have time to look up exact wording. Anyone?
It sounds like most of the non-religious people on this thread came to it through religion, if that makes sense? It sounds like that for most of us, it has been a process of learning, filtering and deciding. I think in some ways, this makes people more tolerant of other views. There just aren't that many evangelical atheists or agnostics around. Being a skeptic actually makes you questions more, and often allows you to believe that things aren't always what they seem.
In my case, I discussed issues of religion often in my own head. It's nice to be able to discuss them with actual people.
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