Anyone non-religious here? Please be nice!

[EweSheep]

Frog

You summed it up beautifully!

 

[deb1]

One thing that annoys me is when people say that the world as a whole is getting worse. I understand that partly this is because older people have always thought that the younger generation was worse then their own.

The religious belief that the world has to get worse before the end of times also fuels the impression that our modern Western society is much, much worse then it actually is.

Although it is true that we do not have a perfect society and there is injustice, overall I think that we are far better off then we have ever been. Even though prejudice still exists, most of us recognize that it is wrong to judge another person based solely on the color of their skin or their nationality. During most of human existence, many prejudiced beliefs were accepted as fact.

Our ancestors put little children to work in dangerous factories. There were still women who could not afford to remain home but they had to work in under paid jobs. Would anyone today laugh at the old cartoons about the boss chasing his secretary around the desk and popping her bottom? We would find that behavior to be harassment.

During the 18th century a woman who found herself pregnant had very few choices. In England, a woman could be sent to a prison called Bridewell for being a loose woman! Can you imagine the lack of compassion that people must have felt for a girl that got pregnant out of wedlock in order to think that she deserved prison?

I would much rather live during this time period-with all its faults-then any other century before.

I have to admit, I find it difficult to understand how religion could blind people from seeing the improvements that have been made in our lifetime.

 

[EweSheep]

Religion or beliefs itself is being abused, thats "worse" in my book. Israel and Palenstines are fighting a many century old battles of boundaries and religion. No one could agree what is worse. The ecomony in this country is bad but in some ways it didn't head down to the long soup lines and higher unemployment rates. "whats worse" is what and how you look at things in a wide sense of boundaries on this planet. I'm an optomist person while my hubby is a pessimestic person...it is not all gloom and doom as he thinks it is.


Freedom in choosing religion or chose not to have religion in people's lives, that is an improvement. I must say there are better toleration of diversity of life (different religion, sex orientation, gay marriages, etc.) and have a healthy respect for those who do not share the same views as our own.

 

[Prettiest Frog]

Quote:
Only if I get to have a cattle prod and no restrictions on who I use it upon.


Ultimately, it boils down to this - Live and let live. If you can't be clear on the how and provide valid support for your argument that it's hurting someone, let it be. Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose.

You have the freedom to say what ever you want in a public * forum, and the correlation to that freedom of speech is I have the freedom to point out you are wrong and even mock you if you offend me enough.


* my yard, my car, my store, my forums, etc... are not public forums. They are my playgrounds and I can kick you out if I see fit. It only violates your freedom of speech if the government prevents you, not if a private individual or corporation prevents you while you are on their property or using their belongings as your medium. Sorry, minor constitutional pet peeve.

 

[curliet]

Pretty Frog, what you said!!! Thank you. That's just another of the things that made me realize that the religious feel that they have some kind of special place in the world that entitles them the right to control my thoughts. Not all religious of course, but all religions.

I did finally come up with a remark that stopped a person that was insistent on making sure that I would not go to hell. Even tho I don't believe that there is a hell. She became more upset and determined when I told her that. She seemed to think that she could pray hard enough to make me believe in it, and then keep me from going to it. Finally I said, "If you want your grass to be green and lush, put fertilizer on it. If I want my grass to be green and lush, I'll put fertilizer on it. But, until or if I should ask you for help, please keep your S&%T off my grass." It took a few minutes for her to understand the symbolism that I was getting at, but she did stomp off in a huff when she got it. Hasn't ever tried to 'save' me again.

Another thing that was mentioned was the idea that Christians seem to think that they are being persecuted. I have an example of that as well. I had made arrangements to meet in a nearby city for lunch with some friends that I only see a few times a year. I mentioned this to someone, who is a very devout religious person. She peppers her conversations with references to God, and scriptures, but I have heard her say impromptu prayers that are downright scary. At one time she was trying to help her brother find a place in an assisted living situation. There was one opening, but another person was in line to receive the room. The hold up was that the person might be in too drastic shape to take advantage of the room, and might not live very long. If this turned out to be the case, the brother would get the room. As we got into the car to leave, she bowed her head and said a quick prayer that something would happen so that the man wouldn't get the room. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. She was praying that the other man would die.

Anyway, I digress. The friends that I was meeting are people who also have turned away from the religion that they had grown up with. One is now and Atheist and the other an agnostic. One came to her views after watching her family die in the camps during WWII. From first hand experience I know that my religious friend has a habit of grabbing peoples hands and demanding that we all bow heads and close eyes while she prays, especially at meals. So, I told her that she was invited to go with me to meet these people, but that I would appreciate it if she would say her own private blessing this time, as my other friends would be offended if she insisted on her usual habit. She became livid, and accused me of persecuting her for her faith, and said, "In that case I don't want to meet your friends!" I have never been able to convince her that we have a very good reason to feel the same way when she attempts to save us with her prayers. In her mind, it's totally different, she is doing a good deed when she persecutes us, LOL. We're just being stupid by not accepting her help and religion.

 

[mom'sfolly]

Please just use the report button

 

[redux]

Please just use the report button

 

[farmerlor]

Please just use the report button

 

[mom'sfolly]

Thanks for not using the initials.

I really wasn't thinking when I chose my name here. This whole chicken thing started when my 6th grader was in second grade and the class was hatching eggs. I told him about the pet chicken I had when I was a kid and the ducklings I had hatched. We were going to hatch at home, and I didn't know what I would do with any rooster chicks, so I offered to buy the kid four chicks. That was three years and three hatches ago. We currently have 10 hens, one rooster and six chicks. Hence the mom'sfolly of chickens, which I enjoy far more than the kids do.

 

[thaiturkey]

Quote:
Deb1, Western society may or may not be getting better but it represents only part of the world. Much of the rest world has not even the Western pretence of democracy, has inadequate systems of justice, poor medical care, extreme poverty, starvation and disease. Many nations are openly racist. Children work in dangerous factories making goods for Westerners. 'Loose' women are still stoned to death. Thieves have their hands chopped of. Police can shoot people without arrest or trial. Poor nations are in deep in debt to the West and controlled by it; a modern form of slavery.

In any century a person can be safe and comfortable if he was wealthy or powerful. The poor and disenfranchised suffer whatever century they live in. It's little wonder that religion gives some people hope and comfort. Opium of the people indeed.

It's not only some religious people that think the world stinks or that Nostradamus and the Mayans got it right. There may be millions who would welcome the End Of Days because death is the only way out of their misery. As for the West, life may be better for most than it was when I was a kid but I pity the younger generations and the life they will live after I have gone. Pension ages will be moved by a 10 years, we know already, and it's possible to forecast many more restrictions on personal freedoms and rights that we might cherish today. It's almost tempting to bury my head in some overpowering religious organisation so that I can ignore, ostrich like, what is going on in the world. Why not? Many already have.