Anyone non-religious here? Please be nice!

[SunnyDawn]

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I had studied Spanish Culture class in college and religion has come up a time or two with some heated debates. Accusations flying around the room that the Aztecs and Mayans deserved to die because they didn't believe in our God and Jesus. When it went on, I just shut down and thinking the REAL motive of the killings of the Aztecs and Mayans were the GOLD wanted by the Spaniards, nothing more. That was THEIR GREED for wanting gold and if the Aztecs and Mayans didnt have much or had none because they may have traded wit with some other tribes, they were killed for it. I do not remember if the missionaries killed them for not following their Catholic religions. Those college students and teacher were really in a good debates why their ideals were so much better than what it did back then. It took a few class sessions to calm down and go to another subject of the Mexican cultures.

Thank you Ewesheep! I wanted to bring this up ages ago but it seemed a bit off topic then. And YES! The native americans (Aztecs, Incas...) were killed if they refused to bow down to christianity! Also many, many more died from smallpox that was brought over with the Spaniards which the Natives had no immunity to (spread in no small part by rape). Kind of ironic considering that many christians wear persecution like a badge of honor, acting like they have always played the role of victim throughout history. Unfortunately the more one studies history the more laughable (or horrific) this notion is!
Sorry if these historic facts upset anyone. Mods feel free to delete my comment if it's too offensive.

MoSo I understand completely. I'm not a geologist but I did teach science. We are actually in a rather calm period geologically speaking. It is strange to me that the earth is as calm as it is. Of course no matter which view you take most of the religious groups out there will say this backs up their beliefs.

Deb1 I am familiar with this religious group. I don't know what else your church taught but the group I'm familiar with, rule with pure terror. The fear that their believers are constantly pummeled with borders on abuse! I don't understand why some of them are not locked up for the psychological trauma they put their children through in the "name of God". The reason these people don't realize the lack of logic in their beliefs is because they are too afraid to dare think for themselves! They are taught that to even question the docrine of the church is reason enough to be condemned to an eternity of unimaginable horrors! So when the reasonable mind kicks in and says "What???" they immediately feel extreme guilt for letting that sinful thought come into thier minds. I can't help but feel what a horrible place that must be! To be so afraid to think for yourself!!!

 

[Overeasyplz]

i have a few freinds who are afraid to think for themselves, because the preacher says science is evil and or the devil's work. They are so closed off to new ideas and so opposed to change that it's crippling. I feel very sorry for them. They are so scared.

 

[deb1]

SunnyDawn, I was brought up southern Baptist and switched to an Independent Baptist as an adult. Later, in an attempt to keep my faith, I converted to Catholicism because, believe it or not, Roman Catholicism seemed less harsh to me then fundamentalism.

Roman Catholics don't get as joyful over the end of the world because the Church believes-if I am not mistaken-that Christians will suffer along with everyone else before Jesus returns. And when he returns it will be to rule on earth not to take his followers away. Also, I have heard some Catholics say that the book of Revelations was written to encourage the Christians of that time period, and not meant to be prophetic.

 

[redhen]

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[redhen]

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this is how the end of the world beliefs were explained to me. Human nature will become more and more depraved. One day a wonderful man will appear who will bring us all peace and solve the problems in the middle east. The man will actually be the Antichrist and batting for Satan. No one will be able to buy food unless they have some sort of mark on their foreheads or palms. Anyone with that mark-even if they were trying to feed their starving children-will go to hell.

God will come back for and everyone will see him in the clouds, he will gather up his people and whisk them up to heaven. Why anyone would doubt him at this point, I don't know? Also why he wouldn't just make an announcement at this point as to what he wants humans to do, I don't know either.

Everyone left on the earth will thoroughly enjoy themselves. There is a lot about Christians suffering during this time, but how those Christians suffer when they were all taken up to heaven, I am not certain.

God comes back, has a battle and wins. Then all the people who followed the Antichrist will be thrown into hell and God will remake a perfect world.

I have friends who will sadly note that in some countries, Christians do suffer but in the same breath express joy that they don't have to worry about the end of times because they will be in heaven .

Sounds like a great book plot or sci-fi movie if ya ask me...

 

[deb1]

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There seems to be a lot of ways that religion keeps its followers from asking bigger questions.

In one of my churches we were taught that if you have faith a miracle will occur in your heart and you will undergo positive changes. This worked to keep people in line because it was assumed that any 'real' Christian would immediately interpret the bible in the true manner. So, people from other denominations were suspect if their views on infant baptism, courtship/dating, drinking alcohol, male headship etc were at all different from ours. It also made asking questions to be frightening because who wanted to be accused of not being a 'real" Christian?

I don't think that what I wrote will offend Christians on this forum because I have heard my religious friends complain about the exact same thought process in their churches.

 

[deb1]

Redhen, its already been made into a series of books by a man named, Tim Lehaye. A lot of my friends read those books and my neighbor even became a Christian because of these books.

 

[redhen]

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I think i know what series your talking about..i actually think i have them. Someone gave them to me.(i started to read the first one..and.. ugh... so i didnt read anymore of them..)
I have them listed on PBS ... noone wants them though..

 

[SunnyDawn]

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There seems to be a lot of ways that religion keeps its followers from asking bigger questions.

In one of my churches we were taught that if you have faith a miracle will occur in your heart and you will undergo positive changes. This worked to keep people in line because it was assumed that any 'real' Christian would immediately interpret the bible in the true manner. So, people from other denominations were suspect if their views on infant baptism, courtship/dating, drinking alcohol, male headship etc were at all different from ours. It also made asking questions to be frightening because who wanted to be accused of not being a 'real" Christian?

I don't think that what I wrote will offend Christians on this forum because I have heard my religious friends complain about the exact same thought process in their churches.

Noted and I agree. Not all the fear tactics used by religion revolve around hell fire and brimstone.

 

[mom'sfolly]

I once got into a very heated discussion, on a thread to thank pagans for various inventions, about the comparison between the Aztecs and the same sort of things going on in the Christian church and countries at the same time. The Inquisition and Columbus were contemporaries, and Vlad the Impaler was also a contemporary of the Aztecs. This person went on to tell me that because these people weren't real Christians because this wasn't from the Bible. But these were Christians who perpetuated the inquisitions, the killing of witches, impaling and other things that the modern world would consider atrocities. They did so with the blessing of their church.

Mexico City (I can't even begin to spell the Aztec version) was bigger than London, Paris and Madrid. There is no doubt that the practiced human sacrifice, but it might be argued that there Christian contemporaries in Europe did the same thing, even if they didn't call it that.