Anyone non-religious here? Please be nice!

[deb1]

I don't get how the kids were persecuted. They are certainly allowed to pray as long as no staff is involved but schools have to make rules to keep the peace all the time. We couldn't have t-shirt that had offensive saying on them, for instance.

Nailing names on what was at one time an instrument of torture is a threatening gesture. It also shows intolerance for others' belief systems.

If a group of atheist children had put the names of their Christian friends on an electric chair and pretended to pull the trigger in hopes that it would convince people to become atheists, there would be an outcry. If pagans performed a ritual to make their Christian friends members of their covens there would also be an outcry.

 

[debilorrah]

Persecution happens every single day in every inch of this earth. For Christianity, for Muslims, for Hindus, for blacks, for whites, for hispanics, for interacial couples, for kids with disabilities, etc. It is unfortunate but it is common. I get really annoyed when one group or another starts a tirade because they are being "persecuted". Free speech is just that. Either listen with respect or move on. Religious freedom is just that. Be respectuful or move on.

I read somewhere recently ( and I hope the thread hasnt been closed ) from a member I actually like, that said they would do whatever possible to shield their children from "alternative lifestyle" couples. That is short sighted in my opinion. That doesn't give ones children to get to know people that may be incredibly loving, kind gifted people.

I am rambling....

 

[deb1]

Quote:
No, I understand your point.

If more people would simply put their own selves in another's situation before they acted I think that the world would be a much better place.

 

[SunnyDawn]

Quote:
Here is the thing about these cases...

When these students were told to stop, they screamed that they were being persecuted.

That "THEY" were being persecuted!!!? Apparently they don't know what the word means or they would know that "They" were the persecutors not the persecuted!!!

Deb, I think it's great that you support your husband like that! You are a better person than I. I'm afraid I could not be that understanding. It's much easier for me to be tolerant of other religions when it's not in my face.

Plus I really, really love sleeping in.

Seriously, that is awesome of you!

 

[eastbaychicks]

Myself and DH have just recently (in the last three years) left the Mormon Church.

It is proving to be a very difficult process and I think it will probably end my marriage. When one once believed in a plan of God, with it all spelled out including an after life and then goes to nothing it is so scary. I feel depressed, lost, confused. Religion really was created to make us feel like we fit in, which is in my mind why I could hitch my wagon to it for so many years. But after some research I wonder if there is a God. Where did we come from. Are our personalities really just organized atoms? Did the universe really just crush down and develop? I don't quite know which is more difficult to believe since science doesn't quite have their story straight and usually changes it every ten years.

How do you establish a value system when one no longer believes in God.
What is the point of Marriage, and children, and what is the point of our species being so evolved that we can even consider the reasons for this.

These days I wish I was as dumb as a chicken so I would not know any better. I feel scared about everything like one, why not be dumb too.

My DH and I are so lost, and we really want nothing to do with an organized religion at all.... but I want a clear value system. And I'm about to loose my marriage because my DH never was able to sew his oats if you know what I mean.

I am putting this out there and feeling so depressed right now, but I'm just wondering how do you take that next step.

 

[CityChicker]

It can really be depressing to de-convert, eastbaychicks. I am not sure that I have much wisdom to give you on how to adjust to it. Maybe it is simply a matter of needing time to adjust. I really think that some people almost go through the grieving process when they realize they are no longer religious. I am really sorry that you feel your marriage may end because of it.

When I started to lose my faith, I began reading about all different views on religion and tried to learn about several different "brands" of faith to see if anything "fit" for me personally and made sense to me. I also read a TON about the philosophy of religion (even took a class on it). For me personally, I just came to realize that religion has little to do with morality or value systems. I believe that humans are essentially moral creatures. As far as why to be married and have children, how about just for your own happiness? If religion was the only reason to do it in the fist place, I wouldn't have found that to be a good reason for me personally. My own happiness would have been a good reason to do it, just like my own happiness would be a good reason to not have children or be married if that is what I desired.

Just do what makes you happy and fulfilled. Go down the path that feels right for you. That is what matters, not following some sort of doctrine that your religion or society dictates you follow.

 

[SunnyDawn]

Quote:
I'm afraid it sounds like leaving the church is not the main problem here. Yes it can be quite an adjustment and a bit lonely at first (until you get involved in other community type events) but this has nothing to do with a lack of morals and infidelity! It sounds like your husband is using this as an excuse to sabotage your marriage! I know the church is big on brain washing us into thinking we can't be good people once we leave but that is bologna!!! Pure hogwash!!!
You can leave the church without forfeiting all the things that make you good people! I learned a lot of great things in church which I took with me when I left and I've continued to grow and learn since then. It really doesn't matter what you believe about the after-life! None of us has any concrete answers, although many will tell you they do. The important thing is to do what works for you!!!
Right now I think you both need some professional help in the form of marriage counseling to get at what the real problem is in your marriage! Thoughts of infidelity or outright affairs are symptoms of deeper problems with the marriage in general. If you two can figure out what the real issues are you can start to correct these problems. If I were you I would do this ASAP!!!
My DH and I went to a marriage counselor before we were married just to make sure we were both on the same page (with goals, values, parenting, finances etc.). It was actually a lot of fun! The gal we went to was older, very wise, funny and didn't judge either of us and was extremely warm and accepting. We both loved it and she was a dear friend until she passed away a couple of years ago.
Right now you need to also take care of you!!! Talk this out with a supportive friend or talk to a counselor alone if your husband won't go. Please, you deserve some peace for your own soul right now!!! Do whatever you have to to get to know and love yourself again! It sounds like you've lost touch with who you are, which is easy to do in some religious organizations. Time to learn how to do that! In the mean time...

X a 100!!!
Good luck to you whatever direction your life takes you to next!

Just read CityChicker's post and I agree. It is scary to leave and a mourning process is normal and healthy. It will take some time to learn think about what works for you now, instead of the church telling you what's best for you but just the fact that you are confused, shows that you are thinking! This is very healthy and a vital part to learning more. I truly do wish you the very best!!! Life will blossom for you again but the road may not be easy. Trust me though, the other end is BLISS!!!

 

[eastbaychicks]

Thanks CityChicker and SunnyDawn you're right... I'm planning on a counselor actually this week. Funny you say it.

As far as a grieving process, yes for sure. I had to re-grieve the loss of my Father... and I guess in a way I grieved the loss of my religious soul that was to have a hell of a great life after this one. I am sure depressed about all of it. Guess I'd better read up on the process and make sure I get through all the steps. I have so many regrets now. I didn't really ever start a career since I was just going to have babies... and now well I may get dumped! I have a lot of bitterness toward the church now because they really do teach young girls to dream of their temple marriage and return missionary husbands and having many babies. I was so close to a career and even after I was married still trying to pursue it my DH said, ah don't worry about it we're just going to have kids and you will not be working anyway. Thing is, I can't have kids and now I don't have a career I enjoy. This sucks! Talk about grieving.

One of the other super difficult times we have had is the separation from a community. I haven't even thought about looking into a gathering of Agnostic believers... but how is that similar/different than organized religion? How do you make friends.... since we've lost all our so called friends. It sounds like agnostic's are very averse to judgment which is nice it is true? In the last three years we've met one couple to hang out with. It is awful lonely when it's just the two of us, living so far away from family and college and high school friends. Any tips? Books... groups. I'm willing to try anything right now.

On a more positive note, I have to say I love wine! I love not wasting three hours of my Sunday plus and hour of getting ready and an hour of socializing with a bunch of people that are trying to get the more powerful calling. It is a relief, and now I love sleeping in with DH on Sunday mornings.

 

[fowltemptress]

Gatherings of agnostics are, in my experience, just people who meet to talk about the same stuff you see on this thread. It's not at all like a religious gathering, it's more like going out to have coffee with some friends, but not necessarily with coffee. I've heard about non-religious groups in bigger cities where they plan fun things to do together, like day hikes or volunteering for community projects or charity events. It's just a way for people with this one thing in common to get to know each other and feel comfortable in knowing they're not alone. The thing is, agnostics, atheists, free thinkers of all types . . . by their very nature they render groups like this rare and hard to find. They don't have a common belief system that would make grouping together like that necessary, and because they are such free thinkers, their interests, ideas, goals, and thoughts are so varied it's hard to get any sort of collective mind going (which is a good thing, except it has the annoying side effect of making it seem like there are less of us than there actually are). The groups around here are normally short lived, and consist of people getting together once, sharing stories, maybe chatting about favorite movies, making a couple of new friends, and then never coming back again. I don't have a problem with that, because it's not our mutual atheism that bonds me with my atheistic friends. We rarely talk about that stuff at all. No, what bonds us is the activities that we enjoy together, which is exactly what church excels at . . . lumping people together and providing them with a mutual source of interest. BYC does that for chicken addicts. Photography groups do it for camera nuts. Some religious people can get focused on religion being the main source of common interest, so they forget there are a million other activities people form groups about and bond over.

Honestly, for those who have lost their faith and are feeling the loneliness that comes from leaving such a large social network, I wouldn't recommend trying to find groups specifically for agnostics, atheists, non-religious, etc. Instead, think about what you enjoy doing, and try to find groups that center around that. Garden groups, book clubs, jogging groups, hikers, cyclists, sports, volunteer work . . . you get the picture. My fellow atheistic friends were not found through the atheist groups I went to, interestingly enough, but through our other hobbies. I'm just speaking from my experiences, though. You might have a great agnostic based group near you, and if that's the case, yay!

 

[pulletkeeper]

My father was an athiest and my mom was brought up in a southern baptist church. I do not miss those discussions that used to take place in our house.