Anyone non-religious here? Please be nice!

[eastbaychicks]

fowltemptress great input.

I can see how it would be counter intuitive for a group of agnostic/atheist people to be getting together similar to the way a church group would. You're right I guess. I want nothing to do with an organization out of fear of being controlled like I was before. I also feel that people aren't really themselves in a religious culture. At least with Mormons. They are constantly battling for power and prestige of the position in the church so they are more like coworkers than a community in that respect. I'll have to check out your ideas on hobby groups more so than I have. It is something that is important to us, to have a community of people we can rely on. It doesn't have to be a lot of people, I'd say just enough to have a dinner party.

 

[I have WHAT in my yard?]

Eastbaychicks - I am so sorry for you and the pain you and your DH are experiencing. You do sound quite depressed so I hope you make good on your plan to see a counselor.

Your Dh does not have any excuse to sow wild oats now, morality does not come from religion it comes from spirituality which is within. It comes from developing your own moral compass. What is right is still right no matter what any outside entity says. It sounds as if you need to find something to believe in. I would say start with believing in yourself.

In my own experience a career is not something that passes by. I know women who started new wonderful careers in their 40s! I know one woman who found her life calling at 62! She worked for 15 years before retiring and now does the same thing as a volunteer! Sometimes having too many choices is just plain scary. Focus on you. Treat yourself kindly. treat Dh kindly. It is spring. After what looked like death the earth is coming forth again - it needed a way to retreat from the cold and rest so it could grow anew. This is true of you too.

 

[eastbaychicks]

I have WHAT in my yard? Thanks for the sweet note.

On both fronts, my problems are within me for sure. I am working on it. Meanwhile DH and I need to find our spirituality. We see where this takes us.

 

[Prettiest Frog]

Quote:
I wish I was kidding. In another forum I'm on, someone actually brought this to the table as 'proof' that Christians were persecuted in the US. Apparently the principal or someone on the school board told the club leaders that they were not allowed to nail up the names of anyone who had not given their permission to have their names put up. Thus, they were trampling on the rights of the Christian students.

I am still waiting on him to give me one real example of Christians being persecuted that either A) isn't just a case of bullying with the fact the victim is Christian is incidental (i.e. - the tormenter is also Christian or all the other Christians in the student body aren't being tormented as well) or B) a cause of the Christian in question being told to stop proselytizing/forcing their faith onto others, or C) an inaccurate or completely unverifiable version of events as told via glurge (also known as - uncited email forwards do not a source make). While I am sure isolated cases exist, he was unable to bring a single case to the table. I've known kids who say they were bullied for being Christian, but... well one such teller actually attended a Christian private school, so even if her Christianity was the sole reason for the bullying, it was other Christians bullying her. I think it was far more likely that she was bullied for being a 4'10" tall, skinny, introverted redhead with glasses, acne, and a love of My Little Pony paraphernalia.

How do you establish a value system when one no longer believes in God.
What is the point of Marriage, and children, and what is the point of our species being so evolved that we can even consider the reasons for this.

Years ago, with my first flock of chickens, I had a cute little mutt chicken I called Aurora. Aurora went broody, and we left her six eggs to sit on. Five of them hatched, and Aurora shepherded her little chicks everywhere proudly. When the chicks were a week old, the neighbor's dog got into the coop. He grabbed one of the chicks, and Aurora went nuts attacking him. She pecked, beat him with her wings, and literally fought to the death in defense of her little chicks, and ultimately her sacrifice meant that we were able to get the dog out of the coop before it got to the other four chicks.

Aurora never went to church or read the bible in her life. She was not part of a particularly evolved species or even particularly intelligent. She got her head caught in the fence at least once a week and once spent two hours arguing with her reflection in a mirror.

Her value system was simple, and it's one I want to share. 'Leave this world a better place than you entered it'. I've never needed god for my value system, or to give importance to my marriage, or to love my son enough that I would kill or die for him. If your value system was a good one, then it is still a good one independent of the church. The so-called 'Golden Rule' existed prior to any established religion and is used by them all.


The advice I would give you with both the general dissatisfaction and the looking for a group to socialize with would be to go back to school, even if it's just a couple classes at the community center.​

 

[eastbaychicks]

Love your story!!! It's so sad, yet you tell it in such a sweet way.

 

[CallyB57]

Quote:
Whispering Winds...in Genesis and Deuteronomy (I think) there is reference to 'fallen' angels. I am posting this link just in case you are interested in reading it. At one time I was so hungry for answers about things I didn't understand in the Holy Book and I researched until exhausted on a number of things. This does account for the 'extra' or not clearly explained to the novice - about people who were 'romantic' with daughters of Adam. Also, at this time in my life when I was 'hungry' I had some kind of epiphany, revelation, awakening - whatever word describes what I was having I found that the more I learned, the stronger my belief became, and since then, I have found that many people I come into contact with have not really taken the time to research with all their hearts to get to the bottom of things they don't understand. No, I'm not trying to sway you into anything, I'm not a preacher, not good enough to represent God, don't know enough. I just know it takes many hours of study and prayer to get right up next to God with UNDERSTANDING. And I do know people who daily read their Bibles, professed they did not understand some things in it, but had enough faith to not let that fact get in the way. But, the awakening I had caused me to realize that although people are sinners and they say and do wrong things, they are basically imperfect and flawed, unlike the God I know, love, and trust. Just like in the movie AND JUSTICE FOR ALL starring Al Pacino. They're just people.
This thread is great, isn't it? I really appreciate the way one can say what they feel without getting jumped on or insulted or made fun of. It shows what a great bunch of people post on Backyard Chickens!


http://www.therain.org/appendixes/app25.html

 

[deb1]

Quote:
Eastbaychicks, I just recently gave up my own faith so I understand the pain that deconverting brings.

For me, there is a lot of freedom in saying that, I don't know. I don't know what happens after we die. I believe that there is some way that we go on but I don't know for certain. I think that there is some sort of higher power, but I don't know for certain.

As far as morality, all cultures have developed their own system of morality. Why? There must be a reason that we humans seperate out good actions from bad. So, even if I don't know if our morality comes from a higher power or is just a mechanism that evolved to protect our species, I still see the value in having virtue and treating others with respect.

Since I gave up religion, my view of humanity has actually become more loving and kind. Once you stop seeing your fellow man/woman as a broken sinner, you start to see beauty. Suddenly it doesn't matter who sleeps with who or if someone doesn't fit a narrow stereotype of male and female. Instead you look at a person's actions and how they treat others. You don't care if they don't share all you beliefs. That is wonderfully freeing.

If God isn't returning then it is up to us humans to fix our own problems. And I believe that if there is a God, he or she gave us the ability to solve our own problems without any interference from a higher power.

 

[mom'sfolly]

eastbaychicks, you may want to look for a group of former mormons to help you through this time. I know that for many mormons who leave the faith, the loss of family connection and marriage in the after life can be profoundly painful. When you married, especially if it was Temple sanctioned, you expected it to be for life and all eternity. Losing that can be very depressing, and may be one of the reasons your dh feels he can sow his wild oats now. Maybe he feels that if is vows are not eternal, they have no meaning at all.

I wish you luck in your journey.

 

[deb1]

Prettiest Frog, I love the story of your hen. That was beautiful.

My dog, Keiba, is so patient with our kitten. She lays on the floor and lets Ninja(the kitten) lick her ears and bite her on her face. She is so sweet with the cat, who is a lot smaller then her, that it amazes me. Considering that Keiba knows to chase the feral cats out of our yard, it is doubly amazing how much she seems to love our new kitten.

Like your hen, my dog never read a bible and wasn't told that she should treat others with love and kindness but she does so automatically. She didn't need a religion to teach her to be good or sweet.

I don't think that we need a religion to teach us the value of being kind to others or treating people with honesty and respect.

 

[eastbaychicks]

mom'sfolly :

eastbaychicks, you may want to look for a group of former mormons to help you through this time. I know that for many mormons who leave the faith, the loss of family connection and marriage in the after life can be profoundly painful. When you married, especially if it was Temple sanctioned, you expected it to be for life and all eternity. Losing that can be very depressing, and may be one of the reasons your dh feels he can sow his wild oats now. Maybe he feels that if is vows are not eternal, they have no meaning at all.

I wish you luck in your journey.

I think you may be onto something. I hadn't thought about it that way.​