Anyone raise Roman Geese

[gooseapplefarms]

Hi, I've read on various sites that Roman Geese lack a keel that other geese have. Has anyone found this to be true? I'd like to try to cross breed them with Toulouse or African geese to see if I can produce a larger keel-less bird. Any thoughts?

 

[Goosebaby]

My Classic Roman from Metzer has a keel.
I thought it was chinese and Africans that are “keel-less.” I haven’t raised either of those myself so I have no idea.

 

[gooseapplefarms]

I haven't seen any sources regarding Africans been keel-less. http://domestic-waterfowl.co.uk/roman.html and https://www.purelypoultry.com/tufted-roman-geese-p-556.html both refer to romans as keel-less.
Perhaps the Metzer stock has keels, they don't mention lack of keel.

 

[Goosebaby]

It could be because Classic Romans might be a different breed than tufted Romans, classics were brought to America by Holldread, which is where Metzer sourced the Classic Romans from. Tufted Romans have been here in America longer without any known interbreeding with their European cousins.

 

[Goosebaby]

According to livestock conservancy Sebbies, Chinese, and Africans are keeless but they make no mention of Romans being keeless or otherwise.

https://livestockconservancy.org/heritage-breeds/heritage-breeds-list/sebastopol-goose/
https://livestockconservancy.org/heritage-breeds/heritage-breeds-list/chinese-goose/
https://livestockconservancy.org/heritage-breeds/heritage-breeds-list/african-goose/
https://livestockconservancy.org/heritage-breeds/heritage-breeds-list/roman-geese/

This got me thinking more about exactly what “keeless” defines. Flightless birds don’t usually have keels because they usually don’t have much of wings so a keel is no longer necessary.
I always assumed “keeless” in geese meant a reduced keel, not an absent one. I’ve never had a breed that’s definitively described as keeless so I have nothing to go off of. My Roman has a keel, with her I’d say it isn’t as prominent as my Toulouse’s keels, but she could just be fat so it’s hard to say.

I tried searching for what a chinese, Sebastopol, African, or keeless goose skeleton looks like and didn’t have any luck, but I stumbled on a something that confuses it even more.

It appears that some define a single lobe as a “keel” which is incorrect. A lobe is fat/loose skin that hangs from the body of a goose, some have two lobes in front of their legs, others have a single lobe that hangs beneath the keel, and others have a lumpy mix of both. A keel is a modified breast bone that flight muscles attach to.
Now I would think that breeders, exhibitors, and judges wouldn’t confuse this, weirder things have occured, but I would think people wouldn’t confuse the two.

Point is though, I’m questioning what keeless even means.

 

[Goosebaby]

@JRies @oldhenlikesdogs @Miss Lydia @FoodFreedomNow @ColtHandorf what does keeless even mean?
Does it mean a reduced keel or no keel at all? If they have no keel how do they even move their wings? I feel like reality is crumbling at this point!

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

My African are built more upright than my buff and pilgrims. My guess is it means if the chest is lower or higher. Buffs look like they can plow snow, the African look like they can run through it. Not sure if that's helpful or not.

 

[gooseapplefarms]

One or more of the places I read specifically mentioned higher breast meat ratio due to no keel on the romans. Other places mention light bones. I'm inclined to believe the description means these geese have ribs like a chicken rather than a goose, but I've never seen or handled one, so I'm interested to know if it's actually true.

 

[ColtHandorf]

@JRies @oldhenlikesdogs @Miss Lydia @FoodFreedomNow @ColtHandorf what does keeless even mean?
Does it mean a reduced keel or no keel at all? If they have no keel how do they even move their wings? I feel like reality is crumbling at this point!

@Pyxis - you wanna take this? You breed them. Lol

 

[Miss Lydia]

I'm going to have to follow along on this one.