Anyone worry about using PVC for feeding / watering?

[yogifink]

"The manufacture, use and disposal of PVC creates potent environmental toxins. Polyvinyl chloride, the main ingredient of PVC pipe, is classified as a known human carcinogen. Stabilizers and plasticizers used in PVC production may contain lead or other heavy metals."

These are the statements i hear that make me ask the question,  im not even saying i wouldn't use it for my chickens but i was curious to see if anyone else had any thoughts about it. Most pipes in houses these days are copper (thats what i have), older galvaized steel, or the newer PEX material. I've read PVC is not to be used for hot water supplies due to leaching more chemicals into the drinking water. Anyways all, thanx for the repsonses, im sure i'll end up with a kick-*** PVC piped food and water system, just throwing the question out there.
The poll - 7 say use it and 0 say anything else. The people are speaking!
Thanx all - have a good one, keep 'em coming
Jason

Maybe one of you other gents can chime in here, but I was under the impression that PVC is not used for hot water because it is only rated to something like 120F, above which the pipe will become brittle.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

It doesn't mean the products are any more dangerous than your copper with it's LEAD solder, which is what PVC replaced

You're so correct Bear Foot. CPVC pipe is designed for hot water, PVC pipe is not and never was intended for hot water use..

The Golden hued metal on door knobs, elevator and hospital room doors, is copper or at least they are copper clad. Copper is a very good and did I mention a very deadly biological poison?
It just kills the TB, staff, and pneumonia germs a lot faster than it kills the folks who drink herbal tea made from water flowing out of a copper pipe.

Silver is an equally deadly metal to animal life, it works as well as copper as a biologic poison but the cost of silver door knobs etc gives the nod to copper. There are also heap big plenty other deadly metals closely associated with the mining and smelting of copper and silver. Mercury, lead, and arsenic come to mind. Look at the algaecide the next time you are in TSC and see what the active ingredient is.

However I am impressed that some of us have so much of the power of positive thinking in our DNA that we are planning on living after the Sun turns Red Dwarf in a Billion years give or take a week and Old Sol burns all the chickens and every human on Earth to a crisp. Just don't put too much faith in someone named Apple White or in something called Heaven's Gate and what ever you don't leave home without your Comet Hale-Bopp boarding pass in hand and be sure to watch out for people pushing Cool-Aid, that first sip is a doozey.

 

[MohawkJEn]

I wouldn't use it. I would rather drink out of a copper pipe since it naturally COMES FROM OUR EARTH! Unlike plastic anything. Yes plastic will kill you eventually, with cancer. Copper is part of the groundwater table. Like most metals. And quite honestly the bills from dying from cancer are higher than the ones from dying from copper. I was gonna build a mister system for the girls, and pvc is the common choice. But I would not do and I am gonna hold out because I do not want to spray toxic PVC water all over my girls no matter how hot they get in the summer and will build them a mister system out of copper piping. I do believe that an excessive amount of lead would be a problem, but not the tiny amount that is used to soft solder a copper joint together. Most of the time it wouldn't even reach the water source, especially if you know what you are doing.
And I don't use plastic feeders either, galvanized metal, or wood. I store their food in metal.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

Your food grade buckets are most likely made from the same polyvinyl chloride.....

Yes and food grade mineral oil is nothing but good old fashion BP crude oil right out of the Earth, that has been super refined. BTW all mineral oil, food grade or otherwise is a by product of the refining process and it is either burned for bunker oil or else it is employed in marine hydraulic oil applications were an hydraulic oil leak or spill at sea would leave the ship's owner open to legal action. Some tiny tiny % of mineral oil is used for baby oil.

Then petroleum jelly is a waste product created by the actions of pumping machinery on petroleum and it fouls and slows pumping machinery. Vaseline was once considered a waste product that had to be dealt with before it gummed up the pumps and stopped them from working.

I hope that none us strain and gag at swallowing a gnat, but then turn around and wolf down an elephant like eating an oyster on the half shell.

Chlorides and the things PVC and CPVCs are made from also come from the bowls of the Earth just like copper.

Perish the though, but if any of you were to need a medical devise (like a heart stent) implanted in your body to save your life be sure to specify a copper one and not a poly vinyl chloride one.

http://www.tvernonlac.com/copper-toxicity.html

 

[206ChickenGuy]

Your food grade buckets are most likely made from the same polyvinyl chloride. They have just been kept extra clean since day one to accept food substances.

Food grade plastics are made of either Polypropylene (#5 plastics) or High-Density Polyethylene (#2 plastics) and are the safest plastics to use for food or water storage, #5 being the safest of the two.

 

[clawmiller]

If you have any concern could use rain gutters instead of PVC. Its coated so it should not rust or be harmful.

 

[Lilly16]

Hey all, my girl asked me a question i hadn't thought much about concerning the use of PVC for water systems and feeders.

We wouldn't personally eat or drink from something being stored in PVC piping so i was wondering if my chickens should be either? I did go with food grade #5 buckets to make the feeder/waters out of but there will be some PVC piping involved with finishing them (running to the chicken nipples etc). With the popularity or going organic, sustainable, natural, non GMO etc i thought this might be an interesting topic. Anyone have any alternatives (not too expensive)? Anyone share any worries? What do you guys think - maybe just dont over think it!

Thanx All
Jason - Go Hawks

So l am going to need to change from the hanging traditional feeders that the hens like to something that wastes less food and creates less mess. I am really conflicted about the PVC pipe, it is not food grade, true. Concern 1. Two is do they just knock all the fees out the open bottom to deteriorate and draw rodents on the ground?

 

[Al Gerhart]

Wow, this is one old thread. But a good topic. A lot of heavy metals in products tend to usually have a benign state, i.e., they have reacted with oxygen or another element and transformed into an oxide or something similar. Usually, not always, in this oxidized state some toxins/heavy metals are NOT bio available, meaning your body isn't going to absorb the toxins/heavy metals. Aluminum is an excellent example of an element that just doesn't persist in nature except as an oxide. Ever read a sci fi story of an exotic planet with the corrosive atmosphere with life living on it? Well, that is Earth. Oxygen can be a deadly poison and is highly corrosive to a lot of elements and the oxidation of an element releases about as much heat as something burning, AKA a rapid oxidation process.

However, some elements that generally exist as oxides and not in the poisonous/toxic pure state can have their bio availability changed by combining with common substances or a change in pH. Water, oil including the oil on your hands and skin, strong alkalies or acids, even heat and pressure in some extreme cases.

But......

Yah gotta do a risk assessment. What are the odds that your chickens might..... might..... get poisoned by a plastic bucket, a galvanized water bucket, or an aluminum Chinese made chicken feeder? Very low indeed. What are the risks of using some other type of container that might harbor bacteria or when wet allow fungus or mold to colonize the material?

What are the risks in using an open feeder or a homemade or commercial port feeder, AKA rat buffet, or not using any feeder and casting the feed upon the ground? Vermin bring disease and pests like mites. Wild birds poop where they hang out spreading all sorts of diseases or by bathing in the water bucket. Point is there are risks with everything short of bubble wrapping the chickens and giving them big clear plastic balls to run around in. Oh dear, forgot to add vents, the biddies suffocated...

Chickens skate along a razor edge of risk for most of their lives, with disease already present in their bodies but held in check by a healthy immune system. Then they get sold or given away and need transported, so you gotta quarantine the little squawkers because the stress of transportation and handling weakens their immune system and an infection, parasite, or virus multiply out of control. So everything you do, or don't do, plus the things they do or don't do, might have a butterfly effect. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, damned if you don't even know the consequences or that something even exists.

So put things in perspective. Run your hand across a nice expensive granite countertop that has been used for food preparation then do a lead test kit or swab for bacteria and culture the swab for a few days. Nasty! Massive lead contamination in most of the "pretty" granite slabs being sold, low to high levels of radiation and all the decay chain elements including polonium, including the final decay element which is lead it self. But you haven't gotten sick or died yet unlike the countertop fabricator that fabricated the granite and quartz slabs loaded with silica, uranium, and almost every heavy metal known to man.

Bottom line. Enjoy your dang chickens and don't sweat the small stuff. Risks are relative. Might be nuffin.

 

[Coffetym]

Wow, this is one old thread. But a good topic. A lot of heavy metals in products tend to usually have a benign state, i.e., they have reacted with oxygen or another element and transformed into an oxide or something similar. Usually, not always, in this oxidized state some toxins/heavy metals are NOT bio available, meaning your body isn't going to absorb the toxins/heavy metals. Aluminum is an excellent example of an element that just doesn't persist in nature except as an oxide. Ever read a sci fi story of an exotic planet with the corrosive atmosphere with life living on it? Well, that is Earth. Oxygen can be a deadly poison and is highly corrosive to a lot of elements and the oxidation of an element releases about as much heat as something burning, AKA a rapid oxidation process.

However, some elements that generally exist as oxides and not in the poisonous/toxic pure state can have their bio availability changed by combining with common substances or a change in pH. Water, oil including the oil on your hands and skin, strong alkalies or acids, even heat and pressure in some extreme cases.

But......

Yah gotta do a risk assessment. What are the odds that your chickens might..... might..... get poisoned by a plastic bucket, a galvanized water bucket, or an aluminum Chinese made chicken feeder? Very low indeed. What are the risks of using some other type of container that might harbor bacteria or when wet allow fungus or mold to colonize the material?

What are the risks in using an open feeder or a homemade or commercial port feeder, AKA rat buffet, or not using any feeder and casting the feed upon the ground? Vermin bring disease and pests like mites. Wild birds poop where they hang out spreading all sorts of diseases or by bathing in the water bucket. Point is there are risks with everything short of bubble wrapping the chickens and giving them big clear plastic balls to run around in. Oh dear, forgot to add vents, the biddies suffocated...

Chickens skate along a razor edge of risk for most of their lives, with disease already present in their bodies but held in check by a healthy immune system. Then they get sold or given away and need transported, so you gotta quarantine the little squawkers because the stress of transportation and handling weakens their immune system and an infection, parasite, or virus multiply out of control. So everything you do, or don't do, plus the things they do or don't do, might have a butterfly effect. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, damned if you don't even know the consequences or that something even exists.

So put things in perspective. Run your hand across a nice expensive granite countertop that has been used for food preparation then do a lead test kit or swab for bacteria and culture the swab for a few days. Nasty! Massive lead contamination in most of the "pretty" granite slabs being sold, low to high levels of radiation and all the decay chain elements including polonium, including the final decay element which is lead it self. But you haven't gotten sick or died yet unlike the countertop fabricator that fabricated the granite and quartz slabs loaded with silica, uranium, and almost every heavy metal known to man.

Bottom line. Enjoy your dang chickens and don't sweat the small stuff. Risks are relative. Might be nuffin.

Great post! Coming from a realist, I could not have said it better myself & probably not nearly as eloquently.